- From: John M Slatin <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>
- Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 08:54:19 -0500
- To: "Yvette P. Hoitink" <y.p.hoitink@heritas.nl>, <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
Yvette wrote: <blockquote> In my opinion, Jason White made a good case that we can't require the author to create a logical linear reading order (no 'logical' order may exist, depends on user preference, structure is already present). However, we could require that _if_ reading order is predefined, it should be logical. Using HTML+CSS, I can do stuff like <p style="float:right;">no sense.</p> <p style="float:left;">This sentence makes </p> which will make it visually look like "This sentence makes no sense" but will be read by screenreaders as "no sense. This sentence makes" (Go Yoda!). I think cases like these are bad for accessibility and we should have a success criteria somewhere in our guidelines that addresses this issue. I'm thinking along the lines of: "If a reading order is provided, make sure it is logical". </blockquote> John: I agree that Yvette's proposed wording moves us in the right direction. It allows for the possibility that a given document might include both content where reading order matters very much and content where it doesn't matter, and I think that's a common case-- for example, navigation bars can appear in different places and the order of the links in those navigation bars may be arbitrary. But the order of words within a sentence *does* matter-- though in some languages it matters less than it does in English (for example). It also matters that content such as links in a navigation bar not disrupt the order of words within sentences or the order of sentences in a paragraph or the order of paragraphs within a section of the document where such disruption would make hash of the sense. (There's an example of this last scenario in the discussion of the Metropolitan Museum site in Maximum Accessibility. The problem was an artifact of the way layout tables were used.) But the proposed wording still isn't testable: the problem is with the word "logical." Perhaps a case could be made that Yvette's example of the sentence broken into paragraphs that are floated left and right violates 3.1 because the order in which the phrases occur in the default presentation-- the source document as it would be rendered by user agents that don't support style sheets-- breaks so sharply from the principles of English grammar and syntax that meaning cannot be determined So perhaps we could modify Yvete'sproposal to go something like this: <proposed> When a particular reading order is specified through markup or a data model, that reading order can be programmatically determined. </proposed> This isn't quite right either. But I agree that we should have a success criterion that addresses the issue of reading order. John
Received on Wednesday, 7 July 2004 09:54:21 UTC