- From: John M Slatin <john_slatin@austin.utexas.edu>
- Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 09:20:34 -0500
- To: "Chris Ridpath" <chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca>, "WAI WCAG List" <w3c-wai-gl@w3.org>
I feel very strongly that the summary attribute should be required only for data tables, and that it should *not* be used at all (or should be set to null) for all layout tables, including the first one. Screen readers indicate the presence of tables. JAWS does so by default, reporting both the table size ("table with 2 columns and 22 rows," for example) and the summary if present. If the summary attribute contains a phrase like "table used for layout only" (pretty common) or "layout table," the JAWS user hears" "Table with 2 columns and 22 rows. Summary colon table used for layout only." (I wrote out the word "colon" because JAWS speaks it.) To me, this is much like what happens when someone uses the ALT attribute on a spacer image to say that it's a spacer. It's not meaningful information! And, worse than that, it's extra noise (quite literally) that users have to listen to and have to process. If the page layout is so complex that it requires explanation, just adding a summary that says "layout table" ain't gonna help. John John Slatin, Ph.D. Director, Institute for Technology & Learning University of Texas at Austin FAC 248C 1 University Station G9600 Austin, TX 78712 ph 512-495-4288, f 512-495-4524 email jslatin@mail.utexas.edu web http://www.ital.utexas.edu -----Original Message----- From: Chris Ridpath [mailto:chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca] Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 8:54 am To: WAI WCAG List Subject: [#248] Data and layout tables: identifying and marking Action item from our call yesterday - Here's a summary of my proposals and questions regarding this bug/concern: Proposals: - add a statement that tables be used for entirely data or layout and not mixed - describe conditions under which layout tables may be used instead of style sheets - only the first layout table requires a summary. Following layout tables have a summary of "layout table" or NULL (""). - layout tables should have short summaries (less than 150 characters [English]) - remove the statement "Until user agents render side-by-side text correctly, provide a linear text equivalent...". - add a statement that TH, TBODY, THEAD should not be used at all in layout tables - add a statement that CAPTION should not be used in layout tables. - add a statement to discourage the use of TITLE from layout tables. Use the summary instead. - add a statement to discourage the use of headers, scope and access in layout tables Questions: - Is it realistic that style sheets be used instead of layout tables? - Is it wrong to use HTML color attributes in tables? Should we remove the statement about using CSS instead of HTML code to style table cells? - Is linearizing a table still a problem? How do we test for "makes sense"? - "...developers may minimize the risk of word wrapping by limiting the amount of text in each cell" Is this still a good suggestion? - do COLSPAN and ROWSPAN need a mention on their use in layout tables Chris
Received on Friday, 30 May 2003 10:20:35 UTC