- From: Kynn Bartlett <kynn@operamail.com>
- Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 18:23:16 -0500
- To: apembert@crosslink.net
- Cc: w3c-wai-gl@w3.org
Anne Pemberton wrote: >I suspect you are making a moutian out of a molehill. And I would claim that you are making a molehill out of mountain! >Your Virtual Dog Show site is about dogs. Yes and no. The Virtual Dog Show site is about an online dog show, it's not a site -about- dogs. For example, other than looking at pictures, you won't find much information that tells you about various breeds of dog or anything else related to them. It's -not- purely a dog site, not in the way that, say, dog.com is a dog site. >Add a dog picture to the opening page, and you have made the >page accessible to those who use pictures for navigation. Wow! That's all? It's so easy! Actually, I am being sarcastic here. I think that by statements such as the above you either grossly underrepresent the difficulty of the task, or you don't -understand- how to create a graphical navigation system. With a picture of "a dog" on the top page of the Virtual Dog Show, you do -not- magically create an accessible page; even with my limited understanding of the issues related to CD, I am aware of this. Maybe you simply do not have much experience with web design and navigation systems, but it feels like you do not have the answers to some of the most basic questions related to graphical navigation systems. Here's some that I would ask, as a web designer, to further clarify your suggestion of "a dog picture": 1. What kind of dog picture would work best? 2. What would this dog picture represent? The show? Something else? 3. The nature of the Virtual Dog Show is that one dog alone cannot accurately represent the entire site. How do I present an image of a dog without it seeming as if that is the -only- type of dog you can find here? (As an example, the Tibetan Mastiff home page, located at http://www.tibetanmastiffs.com/, features a picture of a TM puppy, to identify it as a TM site. If I put a sheltie on the VDS site, would that identify it as a sheltie site?) 4. Where should the picture be located, and if it's part of the navigation system, where should it go? 5. Will this really work and provide access in the way you claim it will? >Another point (I think I suggested this to you some time back), was to >change the word on the link that goes directly to the pictures of the dog >entrants to something more illustrative of the page than the word >"Catalog". "Dogs" or Dog Pictures would be more illustrative. I know you suggested that, and I chose to reject that advice, because the word "Catalog" has a specific meaning within dog shows, and the Virtual Dog Show is supposed to be an online representation of a dog show. The use of the term "Catalog" was specifically chosen to extend the metaphor we use, and is wholly appropriate for most of our audience. >There is also >still the problem of the ad at the top of the page from "Living Free" that, >most times I've visited, shows a cat or two, adding more confusion as to >what the site is really about. Except, as you say, that's an ad. And advertisers generally should be free to select whatever they want; if you claim this should be some sort of -restriction- on the VDS site, then you have clearly crossed over into that realm which you labeled a "molehill" and which I call a "mountain" -- the realm in which I am forced to make substantial artistic, creative, and business practices changes to my web site purely to (supposedly) serve the needs of a certain population (although this has not yet been demonstrated to me that it -will- do so, beyond your continued assertions-without-proof). >It will not require a total redesign of the page to includ a picture of a >dog at the top of the site. Yes, it will. >You now have a nice graphic of a blue ribbon >where the dog should be. That is a design consideration, not an accessibility consideration. Do you understand the difference? Do you really want to insist that all web pages be created the way -you- prefer them (and, supposedly, people with CD like them) in the name of accessibility? >The blue ribbon can be moved to the top right of >the page leaving the page title between the two illustrative graphics (the >blue ribbon indicates there is a contest involved). You -really- don't understand web designers, do you? Or else you'd have some sort of idea how this kind of "advice"/"demand", in the name of "greater accessibility," is very threatening. >Can you ask the sponsor to put dog picture/s in their ad on this page? No. The sponsor is paying me money and can put whatever they like, within reason. If -you- would like to pay for the ads on the VDS site, then I might consider what -you- have to say about them. >When I read the guidelines, I was happy with the term "multi-media", whi ch >I took to include simple graphics, photos, drawings, etc. I don't read into >it that you *have* to use the fancy stuff. I'm glad you were happy with it. I'm not. Demanding the use of multimedia whenever it will (supposedly) improve comprehension is an undue burden upon web creators, and by using "multimedia" instead of "images" it certainly does imply "the fancy stuff." Most real web designers will not think "multimedia" means only "simple graphics." Thus, Charles' use of the term is very problematic in this case. Let's try to apply it. I start out with the Virtual Dog Show site as it is. Someone pushy comes along and says "you must put a picture of a dog on your site!" I do so. Someone else tells me, "you must put it -here-!" and I do so. They then tell me "you must make your sponsor change their ad!" and I do so. So I think I've got my page made accessible at last. Then someone else comes along and says "hey wait this can't be under- stood just by the ribbon and the dog picture -- you need to have *multimedia*, such as a flash animation with pictures of dogs walking before a judge and one getting awarded a prize." So I shell out several thousand dollars to a macromedia artist and he makes it, and I put it on the page. Then someone else says "huh, I don't understand that without sound, put sound on the page!" and someone else says "it seems to me that this is a show for cartoon/animated dogs because you use rendered, not photographed dogs in your movie, so you need to hire a commercial film studio to shoot live dogs in competition in order to make it clear!" Then someone else says... I am very, *very* worried about any guideline which seems to amount to "if this can't be understood as it by some sector of the audience, throw multimedia at the page until it sticks, lather, rinse, repeat." --Kynn PS: "Squick" is a word that apparently originated in the BDSM community. I'm not part of that particular kink, but here's a quote from http://www.submission.net/AboutBDSM1.html : "There will be things you will encounter in BDSM that will not be interesting for you. In fact, there will be things that may stun you or gross you out! This effect is so common that there is a word for it. People say they are squicked when they encounter something that someone else does that makes them feel squeamish or "icky." (The word "squick" conflates those two words. The word is attributed to STella, a well-known and feistily articulate woman in the BDSM community in San Francisco.) If something squicks you, just leave that section and go on to something else." -- Kynn Bartlett <kynn@operamail.com> http://www.kynn.com/ My Browser Is Faster Than Yours
Received on Monday, 27 March 2000 18:24:55 UTC