- From: Al Gilman <asgilman@access.digex.net>
- Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 18:40:55 -0500 (EST)
- To: w3c-wai-er-ig@w3.org
Please see <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wai-gl-techniques-19980918.html#spacer-images> for the current draft guidance on this question. This says that null alt text is appropriate under certain circumstances. It remains to be seen whether a particular heuristic will recognize these circumstances accurately or not. Al to follow up on what Michael Vorburger said: > Chris and others interested in the matter, > > I agree everything SHOULD have a purpose, but in the "real-world" case of > a 1x20 transparent GIF for spacing, I really cannot see the purpose of > (automatically) adding any other ALT than ALT="". What could be the interest > of a text-only user to see ALT="decoration image" for this case??? > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Ridpath [mailto:chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca] > Sent: Monday, November 16, 1998 3:11 PM > To: mike > Subject: Re: Automatic Alt Text Generation > > > Michael, > > I'm looking forward to looking at the specs for your semester project > next week. Please let me know when they're available. > > It seems to me that everything in the document has a purpose. The > purpose of the decorative image you describe is decoration (ALT="decoration > image"). If you allow ALT="" then the Lynxx user does not know if the > document creator forgot to put in Alt text or it is one of your decoration > images. > > Cheers, > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Vorburger <mike@vorburger.ch> > To: Chris Ridpath <chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca> > Date: November 14, 1998 10:12 AM > Subject: RE: Automatic Alt Text Generation > > > Chris > > tx for pointing me to the WAI-AU mailing list, which I did not > know before. I read the web archive of the ALT text discussion. My ALTifier > tool is going to set ALT="" for an IMG which clearly is "decorative only", > like a transparent 1x10 GIF etc. I think this is good and cannot see the > problem with this. I did incorporate the relevant parts of Daniel's > text-equiv page into my project. > > I hope to publish the full specification of my semester project > next week and am looking forward to any comments from you and the others > from the list! We will probably also talk about it the next phone > conference. > > Regards, > Michael > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Ridpath [mailto:chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca] > Sent: Friday, November 06, 1998 3:56 PM > To: mike > Subject: Re: Automatic Alt Text Generation > > > Michael, > > Daniel has a page with several ideas concerning the automatic > creation of Alt text. A couple of the ideas were discussed in the phone > conversation but I haven't seen the minutes yet. Daniels ideas can be found > at: > > http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/text-equiv.htm > > There has been some discussion about the generation of automatic > Alt text on the w3c-wai-au@w3.org list. > > The current authoring tool guidelines can be found at: > > http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/WD-WAI-USERAGENT-19981030/ > > They haven't been updated to include the suggestions for > automatic Alt text generation yet. > > Hope this helps, > Chris > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Vorburger <mike@vorburger.ch> > To: Chris Ridpath <chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca> > Date: November 6, 1998 5:22 AM > Subject: RE: Automatic Alt Text Generation > > > Hello Chris > > I was unfortunately not able to participate in the conf. > call this time. I am very interested in the suggestions for Automatic ALT > Text generation. Could you maybe send them to me by private mail, or point > the URL of the authoring tool guidelines if already published? I will be > happy to comment on them. > > Tx, > Michael > -----Original Message----- > From: w3c-wai-er-ig-request@w3.org > [mailto:w3c-wai-er-ig-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of Chris Ridpath > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 1998 9:58 PM > To: w3c-wai-er-ig > Subject: Automatic Alt Text Generation > > > I've made a couple of suggestions for inclusion in the > authoring tool guidelines as we discussed in the recent conference call. > Please let me know if you have any comments. > > [text/html is unsupported, treating like TEXT/PLAIN] [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> > <HTML> > <HEAD> > > <META content=text/html;charset=iso-8859-1 http-equiv=Content-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> > <META content='"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=GENERATOR> > </HEAD> > <BODY bgColor=#fffbf0> > <DIV><SPAN class=600510923-16111998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial size=2>Chris > and others interested in the matter,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=600510923-16111998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial > size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=600510923-16111998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial > size=2> I agree everything SHOULD have a purpose, but in the > "real-world" case of a 1x20 transparent GIF for spacing, I really > cannot see the purpose of (automatically) adding any other ALT than > ALT="". What could be the interest of a text-only user to see > ALT="decoration image" for this case???</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <BLOCKQUOTE > style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> > <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" > size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Chris Ridpath > [mailto:chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, November 16, 1998 > 3:11 PM<BR><B>To:</B> mike<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Automatic Alt Text > Generation<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Michael,</FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV><FONT size=2>I'm looking forward to looking at the specs for your > semester project next week. Please let me know when they're > available.</FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV><FONT size=2>It seems to me that everything in the document has a > purpose. The purpose of the decorative image you describe is decoration > (ALT="decoration image"). If you allow ALT="" then the > Lynxx user does not know if the document creator forgot to put in Alt text > or it is one of your decoration images.</FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Cheers,</FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT><FONT size=2>Chris</FONT></DIV> > <DIV> </DIV> > <BLOCKQUOTE > style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> > <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>-----Original > Message-----</B><BR><B>From: </B>Michael Vorburger <<A > href="mailto:mike@vorburger.ch">mike@vorburger.ch</A>><BR><B>To: > </B>Chris Ridpath <<A > href="mailto:chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca">chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca</A>><BR><B>Date: > </B>November 14, 1998 10:12 AM<BR><B>Subject: </B>RE: Automatic Alt Text > Generation<BR><BR></DIV></FONT> > <DIV><SPAN class=540340715-14111998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial > size=2>Chris</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=540340715-14111998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial > size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=540340715-14111998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial > size=2> tx for pointing me to the WAI-AU mailing list, which I did > not know before. I read the web archive of the ALT text discussion. My > ALTifier tool is going to set ALT="" for an IMG which clearly > is "decorative only", like a transparent 1x10 GIF etc. I think > this is good and cannot see the problem with this. I did incorporate the > relevant parts of Daniel's text-equiv page into my > project.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=540340715-14111998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial > size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=540340715-14111998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial > size=2> I hope to publish the full specification of my > semester project next week and am looking forward to any comments from > you and the others from the list! We will probably also talk about it > the next phone conference.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=540340715-14111998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial > size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=540340715-14111998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial > size=2>Regards,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=540340715-14111998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial > size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=540340715-14111998><FONT color=#0000ff > face=Arial size=2>Michael</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <BLOCKQUOTE > style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> > <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" > size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Chris Ridpath [<A > href="mailto:chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca">mailto:chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca</A>]<BR><B>Sent:</B> > Friday, November 06, 1998 3:56 PM<BR><B>To:</B> > mike<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: Automatic Alt Text > Generation<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>Michael,</FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV><FONT size=2>Daniel has a page with several ideas concerning > the automatic creation of Alt text. A couple of the ideas were > discussed in the phone conversation but I haven't seen the minutes > yet. Daniels ideas can be found at:</FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV><A > href="http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/text-equiv.htm">http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/text-equiv.htm</A></DIV> > <DIV> </DIV> > <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>There has been some discussion about > the generation of automatic Alt text on the <A > href="mailto:w3c-wai-au@w3.org">w3c-wai-au@w3.org</A> > list.</FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV><FONT size=2>The current authoring tool guidelines can be found > at:</FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV><FONT size=2><A > href="http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/WD-WAI-USERAGENT-19981030/">http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/WD-WAI-USERAGENT-19981030/</A></FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2>They haven't been updated to include > the suggestions for automatic Alt text generation yet.</FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV><FONT size=2>Hope this helps,</FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT size=2>Chris</FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT size=2></FONT> </DIV> > <BLOCKQUOTE > style="BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> > <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2><B>-----Original > Message-----</B><BR><B>From: </B>Michael Vorburger <<A > href="mailto:mike@vorburger.ch">mike@vorburger.ch</A>><BR><B>To: > </B>Chris Ridpath <<A > href="mailto:chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca">chris.ridpath@utoronto.ca</A>><BR><B>Date: > </B>November 6, 1998 5:22 AM<BR><B>Subject: </B>RE: Automatic > Alt Text Generation<BR><BR></DIV></FONT> > <DIV><SPAN class=670495209-06111998><FONT color=#0000ff > face=Arial size=2>Hello Chris</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=670495209-06111998><FONT color=#0000ff > face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=670495209-06111998><FONT color=#0000ff > face=Arial size=2> I was unfortunately not able to > participate in the conf. call this time. I am very interested in > the suggestions for Automatic ALT Text generation. Could you > maybe send them to me by private mail, or point the URL of the > authoring tool guidelines if already published? I will be happy > to comment on them.</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=670495209-06111998><FONT color=#0000ff > face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=670495209-06111998><FONT color=#0000ff > face=Arial size=2>Tx,</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <DIV><SPAN class=670495209-06111998><FONT color=#0000ff > face=Arial size=2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN > class=670495209-06111998><FONT color=#0000ff face=Arial > size=2>Michael</FONT></SPAN></DIV> > <BLOCKQUOTE > style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"> > <DIV class=OutlookMessageHeader><FONT face="Times New Roman" > size=2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> > w3c-wai-er-ig-request@w3.org > [mailto:w3c-wai-er-ig-request@w3.org]<B>On Behalf Of</B> > Chris Ridpath<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, November 05, 1998 > 9:58 PM<BR><B>To:</B> w3c-wai-er-ig<BR><B>Subject:</B> > Automatic Alt Text Generation<BR><BR></FONT></DIV> > <DIV> > <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2> > <DIV><FONT color=#000000 size=2></FONT>I've made a couple of > suggestions for inclusion in the authoring tool guidelines > as we discussed in the recent conference call. Please let me > know if you have any comments.</DIV> > <DIV> </DIV> > <DIV> </DIV></FONT></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> > <HTML><BR>----<BR></HTML>Michael Vorburger <mike@vorburger.ch> & <michael.vorburger@epfl.ch> <BR>WEBMASTERS & FrontPage users, check out my cool webtool at: <BR>http://www.vorburger.ch/kissfp
Received on Monday, 16 November 1998 18:40:58 UTC