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RE: waicard9

From: Neff, Robert <Robert.Neff@usmint.treas.gov>
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 1999 09:59:14 -0500
Message-ID: <67F97DCE5F30D11185770000F67CB408015D12BD@WDCSRV01.usmint.treas.gov>
To: "'w3c-wai-eo@w3.org'" <w3c-wai-eo@w3.org>, "'dd@w3.org'" <dd@w3.org>
Cc: "'jbrewer@w3.org'" <jbrewer@w3.org>
Here are my comments as based upon Judy'd email last night.  I fear there
may be some latency in the email on my end, so I hope it is not to late to

>4. Image Maps Use client-side MAP and text link for hotspots.
ROB>Disagree, feel we are confusing the issue and recommend,
Use client-side MAPs, ALT Tags for hotspots and text links.

Justification: ALT Tag for hotspots and text links are two separate issues.
The ALT Tag for the Hotpsot provides users with a visual description of the
hotspot, whereas Text Link provides text links of each hotspot for the

>7. Page Organization Use headings, lists, and consistent structure. Use CSS
>for layout and style.
ROB> I still disagree with the statement, "Use CSS for layout and style."  

Justification:  Why?  How are designers in the trenches going to understand
this?  Their audience may be HTML 3.2.  We are seeing browser versions 1.x
and 2.x .  I am curious how you can tell someone who has to be in compliance
with ADA and Rehab Act Section 508, and has to design for multiple browsers
and versions, that they must use CSS.  I think it is wrong to say "Use CSS
for layout and style" .  Imagine if a Federal Manager or CIO reads this and
tells their web service that they must use CSS because it is on the
QUICKTIPS!  Please do not make our jobs any more difficult.

Suggest we say, "For layout and style, recommend CSS or accessible HTML"
>11. Tables Make line by line reading sensible. Provide a Summary. Avoid
>using tables for column layout.
Rob>  Seems I am going to have to agree to disagree on the last statement,
using tables for column layout." <smile> and here is why.

How you define column layout may not be the way someone else does.  What is
column layout?  Is it using navbars in a two column table (left column is
navbars and right dolumn is text)?  Is the left column broken in many rows
for the navbars while the right column is still one cell.  What about nested
rows and columns?  And spans?  

Is it one large table that is used to ensure the text wraps at a
predetermined pixel?  This would pass the first sentence, line by line.  

What is it we are really trying to say?  Dan, can you describe and clarify
what we are trying to have designers not do when it is seen by all browsers
(voice, text, screen readers).  I would recommend that we redefine this
comment, "Avoid using tables for column layout"  or else we are really going
to confuse the people in the trenches.

Could we point to URL that contains a position paper on "Acceptable and Not
Acceptable Table Usage" as written by the WAI?

Many thanks and please copy me on discussion at this email address.
Robert Neff

Disclaimer:  The opinions expressed are personal opinions and not those of
the US Mint
Received on Thursday, 4 February 1999 09:58:46 UTC

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