- From: CE Whitehead <cewcathar@hotmail.com>
- Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 14:32:21 -0400
- To: ecrire@catherine-roy.net
- Cc: w3c-translators@w3.org
Hi, thanks to all French speakers for their corrections! I've straightened out my texts. Both machine translators still get "n'est pas" wrong; I assume it is because there is not enough information in that phrase for the machine. Also google (and I've got to check the other) translates * * * "Est-il possible que personne l'a vue?" as: "Is it possible that nobody saw?" (Is it my French here that makes google leave off the pronoun "her" or "it"??) But what I want to know is why the mistakes all match up??? Are the two methods used by the two translators different??? Thanks. --C. E. Whitehead cewcathar@hotmail.com ( It's nice to have these corrections broadcast all over the list--though I know Catherine did not send this to the list; I wrote the incorrect a-t-il because I am not too used to asking questions in French as I've never taught French; I've taken lit courses in French, and yes composition courses; but the language I taught was ESL; I once created some activities do do for the novel "Therese Desqueyroux" for my friends who taught French after they helped proctor an examination I had to take in French, then put those online; that's as far as I've gotten to teaching French; I do not teach now however anything!!!). > > >Example 1 > >Il va pleuvoir le dimanche, n'est pas? A-t-il quelque chose que je peux >faire?" > >Should be: > >Il va pleuvoir dimanche, n'est pas ? Y a-t-il quelque chose que je puisse >faire ? (The translators handled the sentence o.k. with peux; interestingly they both also handled the erroneous: S'il est impossible que quelque chose se passe, y a t-il des cas ou il est possible qu'il se passe? fine!!!) > >Because a) as far as I can tell in this context, there is no need for the >article “le” before the word “dimanche”, b) the second part of the >second sentence should be in the subjunctive and c) as Christopher pointed >out, you need to have the pronoun “Y” before the verb “avoir” in >this context. > >Example 2: > >S'il est impossible que quelque chose se passe, a-t-il des cas où il est >possible qu'elle se passe? > >Should be: > >S'il est impossible que quelque chose se produise, y a-t-il des cas où ce >serait possible ? > >Because a) the verb “to occur” should be translated as “se >produire” (“avoir lieu” or “arriver” could be ok too), b) again, >as Christopher pointed out, you need to have the pronoun “Y” before the >verb “avoir” in this context and c) there is no need to repeat the >initial premise in the second part of the sentence. > > > > >-- >Catherine Roy > >www.catherine-roy.net > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: www-international-request@w3.org [mailto:www- > > international-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of CE > > Whitehead > > Sent: June 8, 2007 11:55 AM > > To: christophe.strobbe@esat.kuleuven.be; w3c- > > translators@w3.org > > Cc: www-international@w3.org > > Subject: Re: Autmotic Translators Google SysTrans > > Want to find out more; why both same? > > > > > > Thanks for your info on the French (I think you are > > right; I think you have > > to repeat "quelque chose"--"des cas où il est > > possible que > > >se passe quelque chose"; I'll have to check with a > > French speaker!) > > ; but google and systrans are doing personal pronouns > > improperly in any > > case, also! > > > > Thanks. > > > > --C. E. Whitehead > > cewcathar@hotmail.com > > > > > >Hi, > > > > > >At 16:56 8/06/2007, CE Whitehead wrote: > > > > > >>Systrans is getting more like Google neither does > > impersonal pronouns > > >>properly! > > >> > > >>* * * > > >> > > >>Example 1: > > >> > > >>Original (French) text: > > >> > > >>"Il va pleuvoir le dimanche, n'est pas? A-t-il > > quelque chose que je peux > > >>faire?" > > >> > > >>Systrans: > > >> > > >>"It will rain Sunday, is not? Does it have > > something which I can do?" > > >> > > >>Google: > > >> > > >>"It will rain Sunday, is not? Does it have > > something which I can do?" > > >> > > >>(I would translate the sentence as: > > >> > > >>"It's going to rain Sunday, right? Is there > > anything I can do?") > > > > > >As far as I know, your translation of the second > > sentence would have been > > >correct if the French original had been "Y a-t-il > > ...". > > >"a-t-il" can mean "does he/it have..." > > > > > > > > >>(...) > > >>* * * > > >>Example 2-3 > > >> > > >>Original Text: > > >> > > >>"S'il est impossible que quelque chose se passe, a- > > t-il des cas où il est > > >>possible qu'elle se passe?" > > >> > > >>(...) > > >>Translating French > English (google and Systrans > > again the same!) > > >> > > >>"If it is impossible that something occurs, does it > > have cases where it is > > >>possible that it occurs?" > > >> > > >> > > >>(I'd translate the above, French > English, as "If > > it is impossible that > > >>something will happen, are there cases where it is > > possible that it will > > >>happen" but it's my French I'm translating so the > > original may not sound > > >>perfectly native but I think it's o.k.) > > > > > >Same problem with "a-t-il" as above, AFAIK. > > >Moreover, I can't make sense of "des cas où il est > > possible qu'elle se > > >passe". What is "elle" ("she") supposed to refer to? > > I doubt that you can > > >refer back to "quelque chose" by means of "elle" in > > the second clause, and > > >that you can use "elle" with "se passer" if that > > verb is used in the sense > > >of "to happen". > > > > Yes, I agree now it does sound funny; but French is > > not my first languages > > > > > >So who is "doing" pronouns improperly? > > > > > > > > >Best regards, > > > > > >Christophe > > > > > > > > >-- > > >Christophe Strobbe > > >K.U.Leuven - Dept. of Electrical Engineering - SCD > > >Research Group on Document Architectures > > >Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2442 > > >B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee > > >BELGIUM > > >tel: +32 16 32 85 51 > > >http://www.docarch.be/ > > > > > > > > >Disclaimer: > > http://www.kuleuven.be/cwis/email_disclaimer.htm > > > > > > > > > > _____________________________________________________ > > ____________ > > Make every IM count. Download Messenger and join the > > i’m Initiative now. > > It’s free. > > http://im.live.com/messenger/im/home/?source=TAGHM_Ju > > ne07 > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Need a break? Find your escape route with Live Search Maps. http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?ss=Restaurants~Hotels~Amusement%20Park&cp=33.832922~-117.915659&style=r&lvl=13&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=1118863&encType=1&FORM=MGAC01
Received on Friday, 8 June 2007 18:32:38 UTC