- From: Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com>
- Date: Fri, 14 Mar 1997 08:48:23 -0800
- To: W3C-SGML-WG@w3.org
Just a brief report on the conference in San Diego. There were 90 people so the meeting room (max 100) was pretty full. A solid contingent were SGML lifers and old vendor hacks. There were a pleasing number of Europeans: AIS, STEP, Steve Pepper, some folks from Volvo, some defense people from Britain. There were also some of the conference's intended audience - people who were looking at SGML and wondering about the business case. Also a few existing heavy SGML users, like for example Caterpillar, who are facing the web deployment issues. I led off with a half-day tour of XML; I had 72 slides that covered pretty well every paragraph of the spec (well, I didn't try to explain so-called nondeterministic grammars, nor will I, this side of the grave). I had no trouble getting through this in 2.5 hours. Some parts of the delivery were awkward and there is certainly room for improvement in the art & craft of teaching XML, but it's a start. Eve was there and took careful notes regarding inaccuracies and problems; when she gets those to me I'll revise the slides and put them up on a web site somewhere. Sitting prominently in the front row was Charles Goldfarb - the symbolic Dr. Goldfarb, one might say. I turned the stage over to Jon Bosak for the last 15 minutes; he gave a progress report on the state of the standard, and some cautionary notes about dangers that should be avoided in discussing XML's relationship to HTML and SGML. After lunch, and the usual welcoming noises from Norm Scharpf, Pam Gennusa, and myself, Jim Sterken, Arbortext supremo, give the opening keynote; basically an SGML vendor's take on the advent of XML. He was basically optimistic. He was worried, quite reasonably, about how we approach the great unexplored middle between the needs of Joe Homepage and those of the Boeing 777 document manager. He was also concerned about pricing pressure. Afternoon break, then Bruce Sharpe of SoftQuad (VP Development and Peter's brother) talked at length about XML, HTML and Web publishing from the (currently fashionable) viewpoint of "knowledge management". The arguments for XML in this context (like, HTML is dumb, y'know) are pretty straightforward and I won't reproduce them. Bruce was able (not till the next day) to present the SQ press release that has been discussed here. Jean Paoli followed Bruce, giving all of Microsoft's excellent reasons for liking XML - first and foremost was that the Web is too slow and the best way to fix that is to cut down on server roundtrips, and the best way to do that is to load smarter documents down and let client code do smart things with them. They've already got a nice setup in the forthcoming IE ship to do this with tabular data, and XML lets text in the door. For his Q&A, Jean invited Adam Bosworth up; Adam is Jean's boss, a general manager on the Microsoft IE team, and as former parent of Access and Quattro Pro, a force to reckon with. Adam fielded two questions, the first about the yawning gap between the home-page author and the professional publisher - he also acknowledged that it was tough to see where to go; pointing out that Microsoft probably isn't interested in addressing any market where they can't move a million units. Second, he was asked, given that many people think it would be desirable for Internet Explorer to do direct XML support, what did they need to hear from us in order to make this happen? His answer: reassurance that if Microsoft did this, that people would use it, thus giving Microsoft an advantage in the struggle for market share. He wondered how many people in the room would think this a good idea; every hand went up amid a round of applause. He also praised XML's simplicity and exhorted us not to compromise this. My take? They'll do it, sooner or later. Marketing issues aside, XML neatly solves several technical problems that are in the way of bleeding-edge Web development. This ended Monday's speeches. We adjourned to the world's first-ever XML trade show, excellent hors-d'oeuvre and free drinks in a covered tennis court. Arbortext was showing off Adept, reading & writing XML - they had a tough time making an interesting demo out of loading and saving SGML files, then exposing tags to show the <EMPTY/> ones, but I was impressed. Two companies were showing SGML-savvy document management, Texcel's Information Manager and Chrystal's Astoria. Both look good to me - unfortunately I didn't get around to asking for their take on XML. AIS was showing a way-cool XML Internet Explorer plug-in built with Balise - it isn't a product and I can't imagine it will be given Microsoft's likely moves, but it was a nice demo for Balise. Inso was showing DynaWeb, and while they weren't saying anything publicly, given that the Dyna-* products have been doing XML under the covers for years, it would be surprising if they didn't jump in XML's direction soon. Tuesday morning opened with case studies. Jared Sorenson of Novell (attention future conference chairthingies - Jared is a *good* speaker) telling the Novell story. ROI to the max, we're talking millions per year in Novell's case. Especially interesting to me was the continuing opposition to SGML at Novell, in the old days from the WYSIWYG'ers, now from the HTML-rules folks. Todd Freter (a former member of that Novell team, as is Jon Bosak) then discussed the current work at Sun on AnswerBook - preaching somewhat to the choir, but once again full of good solid SGML arguments for those who need them. Eric Skinner of Omnimark went last, showing how Omnimark uses SGML and microdocuments to automate the devilishly complex task of installing the Omnimark product. Tuesday's second session was the integration heavies. First was SGML veteran Eric Severson, now a technology integrator with IBM Global Solutions. He gave us a really good tour of the basic SGML business case - richer data creates more evenues for competition between information providers; competition is good. Peter Lamb, Andersen Consulting's world-wide #1 on document technologies, gave a skeptical but enlightening address - pointing out that the stock market is still very dubious about SGML companies, then moving through a series of Andersen predictions about the shape of publishing technologies in the short and medium term. His strongest point was that if SGML and XML are to prevail, they will have to do so on the basis of a sound business case, not because of any intrinsic technology elegance. Norm Scharpf asked Peter a really good question - in the printing industry at least, the state of EDI is pretty poor - these systems are a major pain to set up, and seem to require all sorts of special bilateral arrangements. Peter agreed that this seems like a favorable arena for technologies like XML. After lunch we explored the publishing dimension. First up was Wes Hair of Inso (formerly EBT) - a company that knows whereof it speaks on electronic publishing. Wes gave a solid walk-through on the case for doing things right, i.e. with SGML. Second was Liora Alschuler, standing in for Seybold's Mark Walter - she took a look at publishing from the writer's view, declaiming that the authoring systems for SGML just have to be a lot better than they are if most SGML is ever to be the product of authors rather than of conversion software. Finally she (controversially) predicted that downstream, there will be room for both HTML and one of SGML and XML, but perhaps not for both SGML and XML. I don't agree, but that's what conferences are for. The final session was the most entertaining. Dr. Robert McHenry, editor-in-chief of the Encyclopaedia Brittanica, gave an address entitled "Copernicus" which I shall refrain from trying to summarize, except to say that it toured through the history of science, mainframe reference publishing systems, being on the inside of a paradigm shift, had really handsome graphics, and ended with kind words for XML. He pretty clearly won the conference applause meter sweepstakes. The closing keynote was Charles Goldfarb, who opened with a vary precise explanation of the relationship of SGML to HTML (an application) and XML (a profile), with useful charts, which I fully intend to steal and re-use heavily. The body of his talk was concerned with the process of selling SGML and XML - which starts that pointing out that communication is impossible without rendering information, that rendering demands the use of style, and that style is by definition volatile and evanescent - but the underlying information is probably deserving of a longer-lived treatment. As always, his slides had the best graphics of the conference. I'd like to close by repeating my final remarks, which were a hearty thank-you to the speakers, who exhibited nearly insane courage in agreeing (in January) to come speak at a conference for which we had no way of predicting the attendence, on the subject of a technology which did not really exist yet. What will the next big XML conference look like? Beats me. Cheers, Tim Bray tbray@textuality.com http://www.textuality.com/ +1-604-708-9592
Received on Friday, 14 March 1997 11:49:46 UTC