- From: Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com>
- Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 21:51:44 -0800
- To: w3c-sgml-wg@w3.org
Sitting in the airport on the way home, it dawned on me that at least 20 of you weren't in Boston and deserve a report on the first fruits of our machinations. I. Saturday During the OMUG (Omnimark Users' Group) meeting on Saturday, John McFadden, Omnimark supremo, expressed grave public doubts about XML. I wasn't there so I won't try to give you what he said at third-hand, but he certainly did make all the attendees curious to find out what it was all about. II. Sunday evening The WG and some hangers-on and friends and relations met Sunday night in a relaxed mood, basically to see each others' faces. Highlights were: 1. the availability of the standard; Jon Bosak brought 1200 copies, nicely printed up in a dark turquoise cover. (The conference had about 1000 attendees, and with vendors and camp followers, the total population was on the order of 1400). No draft XML specs were left over. Jon had also done up a 4-page, thorough, light-hearted, "XML Q & A", which was also generally available. I'm sure Jon could post a copy here. 2. lapel pins, red background with silver lettering saying "<?XML!>". There were only a hundred, and they're basically gone now, so a future collectors' item. 3. discussion of the problems and advantages of strict 8879 conformance, and how we could work with ISO to minimize those problems. Charles Goldfarb and the rest of the WG8 people, who had already been in Boston for a week-long meeting, were in 100% onside and we are completely unified in our desire to have an XML that is clean, free of design blemishes, and fully conformant. Skipping forward, by weeks' end WG8, through Charles, had solicited the ERB to propose a draft technical corrigendum to see if we can put to bed some of the thornier issues in this area. While ISO is not (nor arguably should be) a fast-moving organization, the WG8 folks will do what they can do to make this happen. 4. discussion about what we should discuss next. While no votes were taken, there seems to be a surprisingly-strong sentiment for plowing ahead with hyperlinks now and deferring the display-semantics issues for a bit. Reasons: CSS is awfully hard to fight at the moment, since both Netscape and Microsoft are working on it like mad, and potentially very vulnerable in a few months time if the design fails under pressure, as some of us suspect it will. Second, by stealing a few juicy tidbits from HyTime, we can probably, by the Web conference in April, probably show some hyperlink semantics that are way better than what a naked URL can do, and at the same time avoid getting diverted down the URI trail-of-tears. All in all a successful evening. A downside - at some point early in the week [Monday?] Gavin Nicol had his nice new Volvo totaled but I gather walked away from it. I never saw him again; if anyone can post reassuring us of Gavin's good health that would be welcome. III. Monday Charles, in his inventor's keynote, gave XML a nice plug. In the poster room (lots of good posters) Michael Sperberg-McQueen had done a nice big 3-panel XML poster; it was pretty well attended. I will retain the memory of Pam Gennusa standing there saying "No DTD? That makes me feel realy weird!" What with this, and the posters all over the place, and the pins in evidence, there was a bit of an XML buzz... a lot of people were nervous. IV. Tuesday The <TAG> Show Daily led off with a brief piece from yours truly announcing that XML would hit the streets and giving some URL's and so on. Our session ran from 11:15 to 12:45, on the "expert" track. It was standing room only, so I think that the luckless souls giving parallel sessions may have been pretty thinly attended. I led off addressing the question of "Why XML?" The highlight of my speech was when I frisbeed the XML spec off the stage and it twirled like a November leaf gently to earth, with nary a thud. Also I drew attention to Jon's nearly miraculous deftness and energy in making XML happen. Jon was next, explaining the process; the coreof his talk was an attempt to pre-answer the main question which was doubtless being asked but not openly: what bunch of W3C turkeys are qualified to subset SGML? Jon focused not on people, but on DocBook, WG8, the Open Text Index, the OED, SDL, HyTime (Eliot's the co-editor), the TEI, Author/Editor, HoTMetaL, Adept, Dynatext, Dynaweb, IBMIDDOC, groff, sgmls, nsgmls, jade, Grif, Mosaic. The idea was that people should feel free to disagree with us, but that cheap shots about experience or qualifications were out of order. The highlights of Jon's speech were spontaneous applause for getting the draft out in 11 weeks, and for James' bio. Then Michael ran through the technical differences between SGML and XML, leaning heavily on the great pains we'd gone to for compatibility. James discussed the XML issues for implementors, covering the cases of people with existing SGML implementations, and people doing XML from scratch; he got a big laugh by out that a really big gain in ease of implementation is that you don't have to come to an understanding of the ISO standard. I and Jon closed, discussing the implications of XML respectively for vendors and information providers. We were able to announce that SoftQuad and Arbortext were doing an interoperability demo using XML (forgiveably, version 0.003 of the spec I think), that AIS had announced that Balise would implement XML (and they support Unicode!), as would Stilo, who sell an SGML Editor. (parenthetical note: Jean Paoli and Bill Smith took the opportunity to wander gleefully about the show floor, pouncing on hapless and high-strung exhibitor marketing executives and demanding XML demos). After the speechmaking, we had a half-hour for questions, and they were both friendly and excellent. Francois Chahuneau (his agenda only slightly veiled) wanted a verification that SGML vendors would need to put in Unicode support. Eric Severson wanted to know about our relationship with WG8. Somebody (Pam Gennusa?) wanted to know about the dangers of living without a DTD. Ludo Van Vooren pointed out that well-formed XML might be *very* useful for those doing large scale SGML up-conversions; the problem is not spotting the data items, but making the de facto structures fit the DTD. So, just make 'em well-formed XML and leave the validation until the editorial process comes around (if ever). Murray Altheim had a good question, but I forget what it was. V. Wednesday The show daily was all XML, almost literally - there were a couple of squibs on other subjects, but not much. The coverage was overwhelmingly favorable. We had disposed of almost all the XML pins, and they were gracing many well-known chests, including Charles Goldfarb's. XML was showing up on a lot of slides in only-loosely-related presentations. AIS was doing a printed XML press release - nice work. VI. Thursday The show daily had an editorial from Brian Travis, previously on record as dubious about XML, saying that he would wear the pin with pride. Michael touched briefly on XML in his (wonderful, as always) closing address. But the real news was that the GCA announced that there would be a workshop in March on the subject of "Selling SGML using XML and the Web" - two days in San Diego - the first wholly nontechnical SGML conference anywhere, as far as I know. Details to follow we hope. ===================== That's about all. I'd say it went about as well as we could have hoped. Our next job is figuring out what to do to make sure that XML makes the right impression at the big Web conference at Santa Clara in April. One parenthetical note - about half a dozen people separately said they wished we'd put FPI's in. My standard answer was "James says it's too hard," but there is clearly a desire for this on the SGML side of the fence. Not only would it be hard, it would add substantially to the spec. I'd favor heel-dragging on this, but now would be a good time for pro-FPI manifestoes in the WG. Everyone on the WG should reach around and pat themselves on the back. - Tim
Received on Saturday, 23 November 1996 00:56:48 UTC