- From: David G. Durand <dgd@cs.bu.edu>
- Date: Fri, 27 Dec 1996 17:04:16 -0500
- To: w3c-sgml-wg@www10.w3.org
At 9:07 AM 12/27/96, Jon Bosak wrote: >I think that there is general agreement that ilinks are highly >desirable. The question is whether enabling ilinks requires the >application to know the entire grove, which in the general case would >mean knowing the entire Web as a grove. Steve and Eliot seemed to be >saying that it would be necessary for the application to know the >grove; you seem to be saying that it would not. Any method of link location must be able to address data. And if we want to support read-only media, as we have already said, then we need to address things without changing the document by creating explicit anchors. Web sites not under user-control are essentially read-only media, so this would be a requirement even if we had not already made it one. A "grove" is just a new name for what everyone else in the world calls a "parse tree". Now we could avoid parse trees by using byte offsets, but given that addressing bytes in markup does not usually make sense, we will need to have the parse tree anyway -- that's what structural addressing is founded on. As far as I can tell, the details of groves are irrelevant to XML, unless we decide that we have to explain how XML linking can be treated as HyTime linking. I think this is a fine idea, but a relatively low priority, as HyTime implementations are a micro-niche even within the SGML community. >| I don't yet see any reason that ilinks should not be >| implemented. The issue of how software should be instructed to >| find ilinks to interpret relative to documents being processed is >| not really our problem (except for ilinks within one of the >| documents that they link). > >If I were an implementor I would say that this is handwaving. Given >the depths of difficulty we have glimpsed during this discussion, I >don't think it will be very convincing to say that finding ilinks is >not our problem. It seems to me that finding ilinks is exactly our >problem. Finding ilinks is a matter of reading a document that contains ilinks. What we cannot describe is the policiy about what documents should be read in seraching for ilinks, or how those documents might be found. It may prove to be useful to require some ilink mechanisms of XML link managers, for instance (some _possible_ mechanisms we might want): + An XML link manager must be capable of processing several XML files together, notifying the application of any ilink endpoints that are found in any of the files, whose ilinks are also found in those files. + A user of XML linking software shall be able to create a database of ilinks that will persist as documents are processed. Ilinks in this list will be passed to the application when a document it addresses is processed. + An architectural form <linkdb src="someurl"> shall specify an external document whose ilinks are essential to the processing of the document containing the linkdb. An application that provides linking behaviour should obtain the referenced document and interpret its ilinks in relation to the original document. [note that I _don't like this suggestion]. + An XML link manager _must_ pass ilinks within a document to the application, and be prepared to interpret them. (essentially require internal links). The point of the list above is that there is an open set of reasonable ways to find documents to process together: the choice of which documents will be processed together is an application matter. But we _do_ need to say what an ilink means, and deal with the fact XML linking engines must be prepared to process multiple entities (whether serially or simultaneously does not matter) in order to correctly handle ilinks. Which documents are processed is not necessarily our concern. A comment on the depths of difficulty we have seen: Most of the difficulty seems to be understanding the HyTime model and terminology, not the basic hypertext functionality. I think that HyTime's tendancy to complicate the simpleis skewing the discussion. HyTime terminology is a strange mix of de novo terms and new meanings for old terms. But semantically, an ilink is no more complicated than a record in a database that contains external keys. And it has the same shortcoming: you have to "join" the ilink against a relevant document for it to be meaningful. We need not prespecify the joins that an XML linking engine should support, but we need to define the mechanisms to enable them. -- David I am not a number. I am an undefined character. _________________________________________ David Durand dgd@cs.bu.edu \ david@dynamicDiagrams.com Boston University Computer Science \ Sr. Analyst http://www.cs.bu.edu/students/grads/dgd/ \ Dynamic Diagrams --------------------------------------------\ http://dynamicDiagrams.com/ MAPA: mapping for the WWW \__________________________
Received on Friday, 27 December 1996 16:57:48 UTC