- From: pat hayes <phayes@ihmc.us>
- Date: Tue, 1 Jul 2003 22:57:00 -0500
- To: w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org
Jeff, with respect to your comment http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-rdf-comments/2003JanMar/0266.html archived as pan-01, the working group has decided not to accept your comment. This message is an attempt to summarize the primary reasons for this decision. A full response to your comment would amount to a research paper. We will also note a possible way to reconcile your position with the current RDF design. Your message makes a number of points, but they can be summarized by the complaint that the RDF (and RDFS) model theory (MT) is "non-standard". While you do not define this exactly, I believe that I follow your point, and partly agree with you: there is a body of work and opinion, which is based on certain semantic and architectural norms, and relative to which the RDF design is somewhat unusual in certain respects. Several other commentators have made similar points, speaking also from positions which accept these norms. The norms in question vary in some details but they all accept the idea that 'normal' or 'standard' descriptive languages must be strictly layered in some sense; this is sometimes expressed as a sharp distinction between data and meta-data, or as a sharp distinction between first-order individuals and second-order sets or predicates. In order to avoid getting into details, let me summarize these various points of view as the 'layered' vision of a metamodelling architecture. First, an observation. Proponents of a layered architecture sometimes assume that layering is somehow inevitable, or that non-layered architectures are inherently faulty. While this may be a defensible aesthetic judgement, it is important to note that it is not a technical one. The most extreme non-layered theory yet developed is probably Aczel's non-well-founded set theory, in which layers are provably impossible; and has been shown that this set theory is relatively consistent with traditional ZF set theory; in other words, 'layering' is not required for consistency, and a lack of layering has nothing to do with avoiding the classical set-theoretic paradoxes. Aczel's results have been the source of much recent work in the foundations of mathematics and philosophy of language and meaning, by the way, and as he is a professor at Manchester http://www.maths.man.ac.uk/DeptWeb/Groups/Logic/LogicResearch.html you should find it easy to find out more: see for example http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~petera/LogicWeb/settheory.html. As a small contribution to this, recent work in the common logic initiative (included in the form of the Lbase language in the RDF MT appendix http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes/RDF_Semant_Edit_Weak.html#Lbase) has shown that traditional first-order logic does not actually require the syntactic layering traditionally associated with FO languages, and that simply re-interpreting traditional Tarskian semantics relative to Aczel's set theory produces an 'unlayered' version of FO logic which maps transparently into the (now classical) 'holds/app' encoding of a "higher-order" logical syntax into traditional FO logic, a trick which as I expect you know has been widely used throughout applied KR work for about two decades or more. I mention all this only as background to the more essential point, however. The key point about the RDF design is that it *allows* the use of layering but does not *require* it. This is one aspect of a critical design decision taken early in the RDF project: that RDF should impose as few restrictions as possible on what can be said in it or how it can be used. It is not intended that RDF should be an example of any particular 'style' of metamodelling or knowledge representation: as far as possible, it should be permissive rather than instructive. This aim has been our guide in a number of design decisions, and we feel that to impose the 'layered' architecture that you espouse would be too restrictive, particularly when the current design does not prevent RDF users or applications from sticking to a layered discipline if they wish to do so (more on this point later) and since the technical work mentioned above has shown that there is no *technical* need or requirement to adopt the layering assumptions. To turn to the particular points you raise in your message: all of the numbered problems you mention seem to refer to issues which have arisen in the layering of OWL onto RDF. As I expect you know, these issues have all been resolved by the Webont working group. I confess myself unable to fully follow the critique of the Lbase proposal you offer in the message. If you feel there are any errors in the latest version of the Lbase translation of the RDF semantics, please point them out. ---- The discussions surrounding the relationship between OWL-DL (which is layered) and OWL-Full (which is not) have led to Jeremy Carroll formulating a set of detailed conditions on an OWL/RDF graph which suffice for it to be a legal OWL-DL document. These involve providing a labelling of the non-RDFS vocabulary into individual, class and property URIrefs and some conditions on the occurrence of blank nodes in various contexts. It has occurred to several of us that these same conditions could be applied to arbitrary RDF graphs and might provide a useful way to recognize that an RDF graph was 'layered' in the sense that you might accept as more "standard". We have not checked what relationship, if any , there might be between the Carroll algorithm and the design of RDFS(FA), but mention this work only to suggest that there might be a useful embedding of your preferred architectural style into the RDFS design; for if so, it would seem that RDF is able to serve its primary design aim of being a universal medium of data interchange even for users who prefer a layered architecture. ---------- Please reply to this message, copying www-rdf-comments@w3.org, indicating whether this response adequately addresses your comment. Sincerely -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- IHMC (850)434 8903 or (650)494 3973 home 40 South Alcaniz St. (850)202 4416 office Pensacola (850)202 4440 fax FL 32501 (850)291 0667 cell phayes@ihmc.us http://www.ihmc.us/users/phayes
Received on Tuesday, 1 July 2003 23:57:03 UTC