W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org > February 2003

RE: Social Meaning Boston 6 March

From: pat hayes <phayes@ai.uwf.edu>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:20:59 -0600
Message-Id: <p05111b0dba8467c95d81@[]>
To: "Jeremy Carroll" <jjc@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Cc: w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org

>  > Jeremy is suggesting - lets see if we can find a form of words that
>>  satisfies everyone.  I'm hoping that doesn't mean fudging the issue.
>I would expect the WG to reject a form of words that satisfied everyone but
>fudged the issue.
>I hope *I* would not be satisified with a fudge.
>I see the editorial task here as expressing the WG intent in such a way as
>to avoid any unnecessary opposition.
>I believe this intent is reasonably clear:

The intent is OK, but the words are still giving trouble.

>a) RDF has meaning that relates to the relate world.

Obviously that is our *intent*, but it smacks of hubris (to put it 
mildly) to come across as asserting this as though our asserting it 
made it so. Lets be very careful, when saying things like this, to 
emphasis that this is an expression of our *intent* for how RDF will 
be used.

>b) This meaning is preserved under formal entailments.

This I think we can say pretty strongly, in a form that nobody can 
complain about, by saying that if any kind of meaning which extends 
the formal meaning is attributed to RDF, then we can guarantee that 
no valid RDF reasoner will do anything to the RDF which would alter 
or change that attribution of meaning. From which it follows that if 
anyone uses a notion of meaning which can be altered by a valid RDF 
reasoner, then they are going outside the normative spec.

>c) This meaning should be socially enforceable in the same way as the
>meaning of other languages that relate to the real world (e.g. English).

Who are we to say this? Even as a statement of intent? I think this 
is what Peter and others are complaining about, it sounds like we are 
expressing a view here about the way that the world should be 
organized. Its none of our business.

>d) The document section should be normative.
>e) The use of a word like "legal" is strongly preferred.

I would disagree, I think that this is what has cased all the 
trouble, and we don't need to get into legal issues. And we aren't 
competent to get into them, either.

>At this stage the only one of those that I think might be appropriate to
>fudge is (e) if words like "socially enforceable" can be made to carry more

I think that it is ridiculous to even set out to assert things like 
(c). Is deletion a kind of fudging?

>It may be beneficial to slightly fudge (b) by suggesting that contracts
>underpinning multiparty systems that use RDF might specify which formal
>system of entailments is intended (e.g. RDF entailments, RDFS entailments or
>OWL entailments); I don't believe the WG ever reached closure on the
>interaction between semantic extensions and social meaning.

Never mind closure, I don't think we have even started to tackle this issue.

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Received on Thursday, 27 February 2003 20:21:04 UTC

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