- From: Graham Klyne <gk@ninebynine.org>
- Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2003 17:26:20 +0000
- To: w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org
In the 2003-12-05 telecon, DanC asked for thoughts about the postponed issues while they're still reasonably fresh in our minds. Here are mine. Postponed issues summary: http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#futures Comments below are headed by specific issue URIs. ... http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdfms-abouteachprefix I think that CWM defines a property that can be used, in conjunction with Cwm rules, to do something like this. This, maybe: [[ log:uri This allows one to look at the actual string of the URI which identifies this. (Cwm can get the URI of a resource or get the resource from the URI.) This is a level breaker, breaking the rule of not looking inside a URI. Use (eg with string:match) to replace RDF's old "aboutEach" functionality. Use to implement the URI spec and protocol specs, etc. ]] -- http://www.w3.org/2000/10/swap/doc/CwmBuiltins.html If this is enough, then I think this can fall under subsequent work to define some useful RDF vocabularies. ... http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdfms-qnames-as-attrib-values I think this aspect of RDF/XML is somewhat of a mess. It's an unholy mix of qname and spelt-out URIs. A quick-fix might be (per DanC's suggestion of long ago) to introduce new properties, e.g. rdf:aboutQ, rdf:resourceQ, etc. Maybe more satisfactory would be to take this into any future work to redesign the RDF/XML syntax (though I have my doubts about the utility of such an activity). ... http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdfms-qnames-cant-represent-all-uris http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdfms-quoting http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdfms-validating-embedded-rdf http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdfms-syntax-incomplete I've lumped these together as they all relate to shortcomings of the current RDF/XML syntax, rather than a fundamental limitation of the RDF graph model. As such, these would be considerations for a new XML syntax for RDF, if such is attempted. Assuming that use of RDF is becoming more widespread, I don't feel that a wholesale redesign of RDF syntax is likely to be very helpful. But I did recently notice an alternative XML syntax proposal that seemed quite neat in some respects: http://rx4rdf.liminalzone.org/RxML (big difference from RDF/XML: an element name is resource id rather than type id). I do wonder if it would be feasible/possible to design a general-purpose simplified subset of the existing RDF/XML subset that is more amenable to dependable processing with XML tools, by eliminating many of the alternative forms, and which is easily generated automatically from arbitrary RDF. ... http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdf-fragids-in-embedded-rdf I don't think this can be meaningfully tackled in isolation from the more general issue of embedding RDF in other XML data. ... http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdf-equivalent-uris It's not clear to me that there's any problem here that is not adequately addressed by owl:sameAs. ... http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdf-containers-otherapproaches Now we have collections as well as containers. We also have rdfs:member, of which all the rdf:_n are sub-properties. I'm not sure there's anything to add (though maybe things to take away?). (I noted somewhere that I think an RDF container can be "closed" using Owl by imposing a cardinality constraint on rdfs:member. I'm not sure that's helpful.) ... http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdfms-literalsubjects In hindsight, I think we should have relaxed this restriction in the RDF abstract syntax. Pat has commented that the formal semantics would have been much simplified. I think this is a relatively change (though there may be consequences for Owl). Less clear is how one might carry over such a relaxation into RDF/XML syntax. One approach that occurred to me is something like: <rdf:Literal> <rdf:litValue> text </rdf:litValue> : (properties) : </rdf:Literal> This sits within the current syntactic framework for Resources, so could also address issue: http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdfxml-literals-in-collections ... http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdfxml-literals-in-collections I think this would be a useful improvement to RDF/XML syntax. Also, see above: http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdfms-literalsubjects ... http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdfs-lang-vocab In isolation from the issue literals as subjects (see baove), I don't really advocate this. I think we should try to minimize alternative ways (i.e. other than RDF) from saying things about pieces of data. ... http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdf-bnode-predicates This seems to be an issue for rules rather than raw RDF data, so I'm not sure it needs to be regarded as a high priority for basic RDF. ... http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdfms-contexts I was one who raised this, mainly as I felt a need to deal with provenance issues. Many implementations have some kind of context support, though it is, of course, outside current RDF. Current applications seem to use a web document as a unit of context ... this feels to me like a kind of layer violation: I'd want to be able to express the same idea inline. Notation 3 has a model for contexts/formulae. I think a small extension to RDF/XML syntax could support this model, viz. <rdf:RDF rdf:about="..." > : </rdf:RDF> or <rdf:RDF rdf:nodeid="..." > : </rdf:RDF> being legitimate ways of defining a resource whose value is a subgraph, within an RDF document. Based on my implementation work, I think this matches the N3 model of a formula. ... http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdf-embedded http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdfms-assertion These both appear to relate to the "social meaning" question. There is a mailing list that discusses this, but (a) it seems to have fizzled out, and (b) I'm not sure that it ever really started to address the issue. I guess the world will find its way on this, whatever we may affirm. ... http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdfs-fyi I'm sympathetic to this, and it I think wouldn't be a big deal to add a new property whose extension contains every pair of values in IR. ... http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdfs-layered-subset I think this layered approach has been done for us by (some flavours of) Owl. I see no reason for further work on RDF. ... http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdf-mapping-lists-and-containers I'm not sure why this is felt to be needed. I think a *complete* mapping could be tricky, though some partial mapping might be simple enough. My gut feeling is that this will be more hassle than it's worth, but applications are free to introduce any equivalences they need in their data. ... http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#rdf-plain-and-xml-literals I think the goal here should be to tease apart the *syntactic* mechanism for including XML text as an RDF lexical form from the *semantic* matter of indicating that some literal value is (in some sense) an XML infoset. Currently, the rdf:parseType="rdf:Literal" does both; i.e. it affects RDF/XML parsing, *and* it applies the rdf:XMLLiteral datatype. E.g. suppose we have a syntax extension, say rdf:parseType="rdf:Text", and this were treated just like rdf:parseType="rdf:Literal" except that the resulting literal is plain text, not datatyped as XMLLiteral. Thus, any in-scope xml:lang would be honoured. I think this satisfies the stated requirements. ... http://www.w3.org/2000/03/rdf-tracking/#test-manifest-semantics I think the mistake made here might be a useful topic for a note about designing RDF vocabularies. I made a similar mistake in some of my own work, and I think the RDF calendaring task force came close to committing it too. I also think that, in practice, applications will always find closed-world ways to use RDF, and that we probably can't hold back this particular tide if RDF is as successful as we hope. So I think the thrust would be something like: "if you want your RDF data to be sharable by a range of diverse RDF applications, here's how to do it". ... That's all. #g ------------ Graham Klyne For email: http://www.ninebynine.org/#Contact
Received on Friday, 5 December 2003 12:27:09 UTC