W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org > November 2001

Re: closing semantic issues (reification)

From: Pat Hayes <phayes@ai.uwf.edu>
Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 16:29:01 -0600
Message-Id: <p05101065b80f641f5cc1@[]>
To: Brian McBride <bwm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Cc: w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org
>Dan Connolly wrote:
>>Maybe we can convince
>>the implementors that have implemented it this way that it's
>>a bug. But it's a widely deployed bug. Perhaps not a lot
>>of applications depend on this behaviour, and it's
>>feasible to "fix" the bug; i.e. redeploy the implementations.
>There was a long thread a while ago on rdf interest arguing that M&S 
>could be interpreted so that reification really represented 
>"statings" not statements. Suggestive that the community might by it.
>Pat keeps saying that the M&S version of reification is broken.

Actually what is broken, I now think, is that there are several ideas 
in the M&S and they are all blurred together. Each taken alone is 
quite clear, but they are different.

>  It would be great if he could spell out in bozon terms (i.e. so I 
>can understand) why.

I plan to. I'm drowning in datatypes at present.

(bozon ? Isn't that element number 145, the first nonmetal after the 
Paranoids sequence?)

>It seems to me that I want to say:
>   I believe the sky is blue
>in which case I'm asserting my attitude towards the abstract 
>sentence -the sky is blue-.
>I also want to be able to say
>   the sky is green is stated in http://example on 1st April 2013.
>   the sky is green is stated in http://anotherExample on 2nd April 2013.
>Don't we need both concepts?

We need to be clear about the distinction, indeed. Or at least clear 
about the fact that we are refusing to acknowledge it, and have a 
built-in simplified world model. I think either stance is viable, in 
fact. We probably have to simplify this stuff somehow, this is a 

More later.


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Received on Wednesday, 7 November 2001 17:29:04 UTC

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