W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org > June 2001

Re: #rdf-containers-syntax-ambiguity,#rdf-containers-syntax-vs-schema

From: pat hayes <phayes@ai.uwf.edu>
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:19:33 -0500
Message-Id: <v04210111b757f6c01f74@[]>
To: Brian McBride <bwm@hplb.hpl.hp.com>
Cc: w3c-rdfcore-wg@w3.org
>pat hayes wrote:
> >
> > Does this
> >
> >   <rdf:Bag>
> >      <rdf:li>1</rdf:li>
> >      <rdf:_10>10</rdf:li>
> >      <rdf:li>11</rdf:li>
> >    </rdf:Bag>
> >
> > ie
> >    _:genid <rdf:type> <rdf:Bag>.
> >    _:genid <rdf:_1>   "1" .
> >    _:genid <rdf:_10>  "10" .
> >    _:genid <rdf:_2>  "11" .
> >
> > indicate/denote/represent a bag with three elements, or a bag with
> > (at least) 10 elements, 7 of which (numbered 3 through 9) are
> > unspecified?
>Ok, I'll play sucker.

No sucker intended, Im trying to find out.

>It represents a bag with at least the members "1",
>"10" and "11".

Yes, I realize that. But what I wanted to know was, does the fact 
that it has a member "10" imply that it must have a member "9", (and 
"8", etc.) even though what that member is has not been specified? In 
other words, are these numerical labellings really supposed to be 
positions in something (so that if it has a 10th position then 
presumably it must have a 9th one just before it), or are they just 
arbitrary labels used to distinguish the elements from one another, 
but not intended to be intepreted as ordinals?

> >
> > In what way does this thing differ from the similar object gotten by
> > writing 'rdf:Seq' instead of 'rdf:Bag' ?
>That would be a sequence whose 1st member was "1", whose 10th member
>was "10" and whose 11th member was "11".

Sigh. Yes, of course, and if it were a foodle with those members then 
it would be a foodle. But what distinguishes an rdf:Bag from an 
rdf:Seq? Is it simply a difference in their labels, or does RDF 
'know' about bags in any sense?

I suspect the former. As far as I can tell from the M&S and the 
discussion so far, RDF really doesnt have bags at all. It has 
sequences, and some of them are *labelled* as 'bags', but that is 
merely a label.  Which is fine, as long as we are clear about it. If 
this impression is correct, then indeed we should just get rid of the 
:_li  as fast as possible, as it is actively harmful.

However, I would still like to know if that 1/10/11 bag (or sequence) 
is supposed to have members 3 through 9 as well.  The model theory 
will have to be written differently depending on the answer.


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Received on Thursday, 21 June 2001 15:19:35 UTC

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