W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > uri@w3.org > November 2012

Re: obsoleting 3986 -- what would it look like?

From: James M Snell <jasnell@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2012 08:27:32 -0700
Message-ID: <CABP7RbesKNm=kPk58QkEnLqUtqqAqwmWtxwbQcGS481MfL0v2A@mail.gmail.com>
To: Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com>
Cc: "uri@w3.org" <uri@w3.org>
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 12:24 AM, Larry Masinter <masinter@adobe.com> wrote:

> Initially as a thought experiment, I've started to sketch out what it
> would look like to obsolete 3986 (URI) with a document that combined it
> with 3987 (IRI), reverts to the "URL" name, and gave updated parsing advice.
>
> Doing so is pretty ambitious, of course, and likely to lead to all sorts
> of controversies, but I thought I'd give it a try.
>
>
Seems to be a reasonable effort to undertake... you had me at combining
3986 and 3987. I'll happily help any way I can.


> *  how much of the introductory and explanatory material from 3896 and
> 3897 to retain. While it's philosophically and historically interesting,
> it's also a fertile ground for philosophical debates over whether
> http://larry.masinter.net#the_person could  identify, locate, or name me
> rather than a paragraph of my home page. So I'm tempted to leave all that
> behind.
>

+1 ... I can't see any reason why the updated spec should delve into any of
that.


> * how much of the historical reasons for distinguishing between URIs and
> IRIs to leave. Again, it's interesting and useful material, but less so for
> practitioners who just want to know what a URL is and how to use it.
>   My temptation at this point is to leave out most of the explanatory
> material, and just put appendixes for URI, IRI and LEIRI which explain them
> as prior syntactic restrictions which are still supported by older
> protocols (including HTTP 1.x). Will HTTP 2.0 support UTF-8 URLs?
>

What http 2.0 will support is still up in the air but drawing a line in the
sand with this new spec could help to drive that decision ultimately.


> * Include URNs? I'm tempted to include at least a pointer to URNbis, but
> I'm not sure which one.
>

Not convinced it would be necessary to include but could be wrong.


> * I'm having trouble resisting the temptation to put a stake into the
> httpRange-14 by removing any basis for support of using http URLs to "mean"
> abstractions or people. Right now I'm considering putting that in a "URLs
> and Semantic Web" appendix.
>

Hmm.. not sure this really needs to be touched on at all really. Why not
simply focus on the mechanics of the syntax, parsing, and error handling
and avoid the semantics completely.


> * I'll accept sincere offers of co-authorship as long as you're willing to
> accept the requirements that to obsolete 3986 we need to address current
> use cases that make reference to 3986, 3987, etc.
>

Happy to help where I can.

- James


>
>
> <abstract>
>   <t>Uniform Resource Locators (URL) are compact strings which form a
>   namespace used as identifiers.  The URL namespace is federated:
>   there are URL schemes, each with its own semantics and syntactic
>   restrictions, and a registry of scheme names.  A relative URL is an
>   abbreviated form which can be combined with a base URL to form a new
>   URL (relative resolution).  Previously, the terms "Unform Resource
>   Identifier" (URI), "Internationalized Resource Identifier" (IRI) and
>   used to designate syntactic restrictions of the URL space.
>   </t>
>   <t>This specification brings together these defintions into a single
>   specification and updates them to match current widespread usage,
>   most notably within the World Wide Web global information and
>   application system.
>   </t>
>   <t>This document is part of a set of documents intended to
>   replace RFCs 2141, 3986, 3987 and 4345</t>
> </abstract>
>
>
>
>
> <section title="Introduction">
>
> <t>
>   The concept of a "Uniform Resource Locator" was introduced
>   by the World Wide Web global information initiative, whose
>   use of the concept dates from 1990, and was described in
>   "Universal Resource Identifiers in WWW" <xref target="RFC1630"/>
> </t>
>
> <t>
>   Uniform Resource Locators (URL) are compact strings which form a
>   namespace used as identifiers.  The URL namespace is federated:
>   there are URL schemes, each with its own semantics and syntactic
>   restrictions, and a registry of scheme names.  A relative URL is an
>   abbreviated form which can be combined with a base URL to form a new
>   URL (relative resolution).  Previously, the terms "Unform Resource
>   Identifier" (URI), "Internationalized Resource Identifier" (IRI) and
>   used to designate syntactic restrictions of the URL space.
>   </t>
> <t>
>   This specification brings together these defintions into a single
>   specification and updates them to match current widespread usage,
>   most notably within the World Wide Web global information and
>   application system.</t>
> <t>
>   This specification and its companions "Comparison of URLs" <xref
>   target="url-comparison"/> "Guidelines for Bidirectional URLs" <xref
>   target="url-bidi-guidelines"/>, "Registration of URL schemes" <xref
>   target="url-registration"/> obsolete <xref target="RFC3986"/>, <xref
>   target="RFC3987"/>, <xref target="RFC4345"/>.
> </t>
>
> <section title="Uniform, Resource, Locate">
>
>   <t>The original design of URLs and its various forms intended
>    to accomplish many aspects. </t>
>   <t><list style="hanging">
>
>     <t hangText="Uniform Meaning">
>       The intention is that the same URL means (identifies, names,
>       locates) the same thing independent of context.</t>
>
>    <t hangText="Resources unlimited">
>      The notion of a resource was not limited in scope, with the idea
>      that URLs could be used to locate, identify or name not only
>      network accessible services, resources and documents, but also
>      people, artifacts, abstractions.</t>
>
>    <t hangText="Locate, Identify, Name">
>      An identifier embodies the information required to distinguish
>      what is being identified from all other things within its scope
>      of identification.  A locator embodies the information required
>      to find and access the thing being located. A name is a component
>      of an identifier assigned and resolved by some authority or
>      agent. This specification reverts to the most commonly used
>      "Locator" designation. </t>
>      <t>The role of URLs as locators, identifiers, and names have often
>      been in conflict with the design goal of "Uniform Meaning". Some
>      systems may use URLs (and, in particular, HTTP URLs) as identifiers
>      for abstractions, this usage is not supported by this specification
>      directly.</t>
>      <t hangText="Internationalized">
>
>      <t>URLs were originally defined to only consist of characters
>      from a limited repertoire of characters, selected from the upper
>      and lower case letters A-Z plus a limited set of punctuation
>      characters, with the provision that other data (and the coding
>      for other characters) could be included via an escape sequence.
>      This use was extended in later specifications of
>      Internationalized Resource Identifiers <xref target="RFC3897"/>
>      to include characters from a much larger repertoire.
>      </t>
>      <t>This specification specifies parsing and
>      processing of arbitrary strings of
>      Unicode characters as input, with previous syntactic
>      restrictions still required by older systems (URI, IRI)
>      specified in appendices.</t>
>    </list>
>   </t>
>
>
Received on Friday, 2 November 2012 15:28:25 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.1 : Tuesday, 6 January 2015 21:25:16 UTC