Re: WE3 - qu'est que c'est?

Hi Neil et al.,

On Thu, 20 Oct 2022 at 11:29, Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:

> Hi Marco,
>
> I guess the authoritative list is here:
>
> https://www.w3.org/Consortium/Legal/2002/trademarks-20021231
>

Less legalistically, W3C has never tried to define or control phrases like "Web
2.0 <https://www.oreilly.com/pub/a/web2/archive/what-is-web-20.html>",
which began as a kind of post-dotcom-crash pep talk to the tech industry,
and a celebration of progress and innovation, rather than a serious claim
that the web was versionable in this way. Of course once it became a
popular concept it became a massive attractor for various parties who
thought they could spin their ideas about the post-web2-web as "web 3".
Various RDF / Semantic Web / Linked Data folk tried this. More recently the
"web3" folks have been a bit more successful at this (and also at getting
people to think that "crypto" means "blockchain-based crypto"). While this
is contentious, some W3C WGs have crossover with those initiatives and
communities, e.g. the Verifiable Credentials and DID efforts (
https://www.w3.org/TR/did-use-cases/). Several mentions of blockchains in
https://www.w3.org/2022/07/pressrelease-did-rec.html.en

Not quite sure how NFTs fit in here, my gut instinct is that they're
fizzling out, especially given the recent wave of AI-generated imagery
tools like Dalle2 and Stable Diffusion. See
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/jun/23/tim-berners-lee-defends-auction-nft-web-source-code
for TimBL's personal experiment with NFTs for arty stuff. The reporting of
this btw was pretty messed up because the art object included early WWW
source code, leading to headlines like "...sells Web source code NFT", ...
which in turn got reported <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57666335>
as "sells Web source code", alarming casual readers. The Guardian piece
also has a little reflection on the similarities and differences between
blockchain-based efforts and things like Solid (i.e.
https://solidproject.org/ ).

There was also some debate about sustainability / environmental impact of
"proof of work" in blockchain technology, as it related to the DID work -
e.g. https://www.w3.org/2022/03/did-fo-report.html
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-new-work/2021Sep/0001.html

See also https://www.w3.org/2021/10/19-sustainability-minutes.html
https://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/ethical-web-principles/#sustainable

There is also a W3C Community Group (basically a public mailing list rather
than initiative of the Consortium) on the topic of blockchains,
https://www.w3.org/community/blockchain/
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-blockchain/ but discussions
have gone quiet recently. And before this, a workshop in 2016,
https://www.w3.org/2016/04/blockchain-workshop/report.html

Ultimately W3C is a membership-driven organization - if its paying
membership are enthusiastic for web standards work in a certain area
("web3"-ish topics), they'll get some attention.

I suspect there is also a generational thing going on here. For young
technologists (who are younger than the web, perhaps born this century)
then existing web standards might look pretty boring. Designs that made
sense in the technology environment of the late 1990s might well seem
overdue for revolutionary rethink. And similarly, standards-making
organizations born in the 1990s might look a bit old school too, so we
shouldn't necessarily expect the revolutionaries to feel drawn towards W3C
as a body for progressing their ideas.

Hope this helps,

cheers,

Dan





>
> Ivan
>
> On 20 Oct 2022, at 12:09, Marco Neumann <marco.neumann@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Ivan, does W3C have "ownership" on the name W3C and "World Wide Web" or
> short WWW ?
>
> On Thu, Oct 20, 2022 at 11:03 AM Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org> wrote:
>
>> Not as an official standpoint of W3C, but as a member of the W3C team...
>>
>> On 20 Oct 2022, at 10:06, Neil McNaughton <neilmcn@oilit.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello
>>
>> I see a lot these days about “Web3” (e.g. https://ethereum.org/en/web3/)
>> which appears to turn around a ‘new’ web based on blockchain technology. I
>> am wondering what the W3C’s stance is on this. Both as a possible
>> usurpation of the W3/Web3 moniker and also as a technology. Is W3C working
>> towards a ‘new generation’ blockchain-based web?
>>
>>
>> No.
>>
>> Also, while there are technologies developed at W3C that may *use*
>> blockchains, but there is no dependency either. Maybe the only "theme" that
>> resonates both around web3 and in some work happening in W3C is the concept
>> of decentralization. But that is fairly vague...
>>
>> As for the Web3 moniker: W3C does not have any ownership on a term like
>> Web, whether Web1, Web2, or Web3…
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Ivan
>>
>> In case you are wondering, my position on blockchain is one of great
>> circumspection not to say skepticism*. Please feel free to share my enquiry
>> with other W3C folks.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Neil McNaughton
>> 2022 SPE Regional Data Science and Engineering Analytics Award Winner
>> Editor Oil IT Journal – www.oilit.com
>> The Data Room SAS
>> 7 Rue des Verrieres
>> 92310 Sevres, France
>> Landline+33146239596
>> Cell+33672712642
>>
>> * https://oilit.com/2018+3+3
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----
>> Ivan Herman, W3C
>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
>> mobile: +33 6 52 46 00 43
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
>
>
> ---
> Marco Neumann
>
>
>
>
> ----
> Ivan Herman, W3C
> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
> mobile: +33 6 52 46 00 43
>
>
>