- From: Brent Shambaugh <brent.shambaugh@gmail.com>
- Date: Sun, 7 May 2017 13:28:20 -0500
- To: "semantic-web@w3.org" <semantic-web@w3.org>
I'm capable of pretty long rants when I let it all out. Thanks for this thread. I come back to read the archives from time to time. I'm happy you're here. -Brent Shambaugh GitHub: https://github.com/bshambaugh Website: http://bshambaugh.org/ LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brent-shambaugh-9b91259 Skype: brent.shambaugh Twitter: https://twitter.com/Brent_Shambaugh WebID: http://bshambaugh.org/foaf.rdf#me On Sat, May 6, 2017 at 10:40 PM, Brent Shambaugh <brent.shambaugh@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks for your illustrious responses. I'm happy I kept it short and > general since it seemed to allow others to open up on an unfiltered > kind of way. A skeptic I won't name would say, I'm lazy. I liked that > I could drop all of my movies into Plex and they got their related > information without me doing anything. Similarly, if you could build > that Semantic Web with TensorFlow or whatever maybe I'd use it, and > maybe others would. > > Actually, the lack of adoption seems incorrect. You can go to a lot of > sites it seems and see at least the dublin core, open graph protocol, > or schema.org namespaces. It's also in Drupal thanks to work by DERI > and and others, and for sure other places. > > There's also the largely academic part, where specialists work on it. > There is amazing stuff out there that is well thought out. It's also > used by institutions for reasons of capital flow and persuasion that I > do not understand. Maybe they can get enough people in a room and the > person who worked with it for their doctoral project has influence. > > Alluding to Dan's post, RDF it has a problem of being fiddly. Entropy > marches on. Having worked with it I know. We always wanted more data, > but found difficultly shouldering the effort getting enough in there > that we weren't embarrassed about it. I tend to believe that building > systems to allow others to add lots of data is the way to go, but that > is work too. The problem I find is adsorbing everything. I feel I have > to be an expert myself to make a sensible application, on top of doing > everything any developer would do. I'm forced to poke around until I > find bones that encompass key parts of what I want, and sometimes I > feel I have done very little when the key parts that I feel I need > materialize after long periods of struggle. Thank goodness for liberal > licensing.. > > I do have hope that these parts will fit together to build something > that is impressive enough that others would want to build on, in the > same way that V8 and node inspired the NPM ecosystem. It would be nice > if more user friendly tools appeared (like Jean-Marc alluded to). It > gets difficult to have every cool feature someone would want. I can't > say I've built something I'm fully happy with yet. > > I do think that parts of the semantic web vision will continue to be > adopted. Whether there will be some framework or toolkit to quickly > build a semantic web (SW) application remains to be seen. But perhaps > this is pushing the SW because I'd personally like to see it. People > will only use something if it is useful. The things I mention below > are used because they quickly get people off the ground with > functionality that is argued to be difficult to achieve alone. > > I think at times I know SW technologies would be most appropriate, but > it is difficult to convey this to others. Sometimes I'll suggestions > of things that give some of the promised functionality of the semantic > web like Wolfram Alpha, but are not entirely semantic web due to their > closed knowledge base (at least in 2011 when V. Lopez Thesis was > written). My goal would be to have personal contributions, not just > facts that could be found in a knowledge base (like the latter seems > to favor). The interlinking of information argument sometimes falls > flat because it is confused with the web that already exists. The > better search argument with SW tech ends with I'll bet Google is doing > it. > > I'd doubt people would add a single line of RDFa unless they knew it > would give them measurable results. I hear it gives better search > ranking, so there is a clear incentive. This action becomes useful in > aggregate. A lot of spotty information? Perhaps useful. The spotty > part is the criticism. It opens a vector to attack the aggregate > utility. My counterargument would be people tag things, couldn't you > just help people do this more intelligently. Or, following the Plex > argument, do this automatically? I know from perusing the literature, > automatic does not seem possible. This invites worry (see below why I > do it anyway). > > I think in some way I touched on a lot of arguments here. > > Personally I tell myself to get out more. I got so detached from the > world trying to get something I'm happy with. I don't even really work > in the classical sense for long periods of time. This tension, > combined with the desire for future security, has sent me traveling to > other places, especially big cities, when I think it is prudent to do > so, or trying to chameleon myself when not. Occasionally, I'll talk > about it to any who listen. Some think there is something wrong with > me for fixating on one problem for so long. I feel in a way similar to > building forts in the woods as a kid (I just wanted to build out the > vision, regardless). > > I did a free write before not reading this thread in full. It's the > story I tell myself. > > I did the college thing. It was not lead me where I wanted to go, or > even where I was told it would take me when doubts emerged. I had > trouble fitting in, fell pretty hard doing so, so I stopped trying and > instead tried to solve a problem that irritated me. This was great in > that it freed me from worrying about what I was supposed to do. I did > not need to follow the leaders either. Following an idea led me to be > motivated enough to think critically, stick with it, think about it > enthusiastically and creatively when I was not doing it, and made me > feel as if I was not the output of some industrial process. > Unfortunately, this leads to feeling and being out of place sometimes, > but that is something to master. > > There are things that people are psyched about locally. Here is a list: > > React - Facebook > Bootstrap - Twitter > Jasmine - Pivotal > Atom - GitHub > Electron - GitHub > Angular - Google > Karma - Google > Ionic - Google (and others) > > Also: Gulp, Grunt, Sass, Docker, WebPack, Travis, NPM, Express.js, Yeoman > > What employers want. Above is a bonus: > Java and C# > > People are either genuinely interested in these, or feel that they > MUST master them to be considered a competent developer by those that > hire developers. I am enthralled by things that appear to be solutions > to problems that personally irritate me. If the MUST comes into play > I'm a lot less motivated, and use considerable energy just to stay on > task. > > The semantic web data model (RDF) is pretty simple. There are a lot of > caveats to make a solution to my particular problem work swimmingly > that I've personally had to learn and document. Things like MVC , > styling, and many of the things above seemed great but created a > swamp. I found more satisfaction refining my solution to the problem > that irritated me. > > Trying to be anything mainstream, or be "competitive", led to > confusion and comparing myself to others I deemed better than me > (devaluing myself in the process). > > Gradually I am pulling in some of the MUST. (oops, is Require.js up > there?), but only because they are useful. > > So what if linked data or the semantic web is not trendy in all > circles. It was a solution to a problem that irritated me. My initial > motivation was not trendiness. I was not out to fill out a label. It > wasn't to follow what was typical of people with my education in > college or even of developers. I'm done with speaking three sentences > and later contradicting myself. > > Verbose, but hopefully useful > -Brent Shambaugh > > GitHub: https://github.com/bshambaugh > Website: http://bshambaugh.org/ > LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brent-shambaugh-9b91259 > Skype: brent.shambaugh > Twitter: https://twitter.com/Brent_Shambaugh > WebID: http://bshambaugh.org/foaf.rdf#me > > > On Sun, Apr 30, 2017 at 12:05 PM, ProjectParadigm-ICT-Program > <metadataportals@yahoo.com> wrote: >> You may find solace in knowing that big names are willing to fund projects >> that could jump start and accelerate semantic web technologies. >> See: <http://allenai.org/semantic-scholar/>, the Semantic Scholar project >> funded by the Allen Institute for AI. >> >> My prediction is that the semantic web will get a major accelerator effect >> and push once science publishers, eHealth, mHealth, projects like Watson >> find common ground applications, and when the global initiative to bring >> science to the masses, like the March for Science Initiative and the UN >> Sustainable Development Goals get their big data footing in solid new data >> mining and semantic content generation technologies. >> >> Open and inclusive science fosters open and inclusive science publishing, >> which will in turn drive new technologies for (search on) linked data on the >> Internet. >> >> And I haven't even factored in the advent of all semantic web technologies >> being created for overlay structures for the Internet of Things. >> >> Milton Ponson >> GSM: +297 747 8280 >> PO Box 1154, Oranjestad >> Aruba, Dutch Caribbean >> Project Paradigm: A structured approach to bringing the tools for >> sustainable development to all stakeholders worldwide through collaborative >> research on applied mathematics, advanced modeling and creating ICT tools >> for development >> >> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended >> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. >> If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. >> This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the >> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not >> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. >> >> >> On Sunday, April 30, 2017 11:41 AM, John Flynn <jflynn12@verizon.net> wrote: >> >> >> Brent, >> >> There have been some excellent discussions in response to your email. As the >> integration program manager for the DARPA Agent Markup Language (DAML)I >> became a true believer. The DAML project started with RDF and extended the >> concept to allow significant representation capabilities based on >> descriptive logic principles, resulting originally in DAML, which eventually >> evolved into the Web Ontology Language (OWL). I believed the representation >> capabilities of OWL were adequate, and attractive enough, to allow >> communities of interest to develop semantic representations of their >> specific domains in a way that would interact with each other, eventually >> providing a standard semantic representation of most of the important >> information on the web. That didn't happen. One underlying issue was tension >> between the idea of migrating HTML web page information into a semantic >> representation and the idea of providing semantic representation of large >> raw data sources instead of HTML data. Of course, ideally you could do both, >> but they require different approaches and dilute the technical research >> capabilities available to find viable solutions. Another issue is the >> tendency to develop competing technical solutions, sometimes based on the >> desire for companies to own a proprietary solution, and sometimes based on >> the natural desire to build a better mousetrap. This is reminiscent of the >> history of the ADA programming language. At the time there were true >> believers that ADA could become the universal standard for large-scale >> computer programming - providing huge benefits in reusable code and friendly >> interactions between independently developed applications. The same sort of >> tensions pulled on the concept of ADA. Companies wanted proprietary >> solutions and researches made valid points that no single language could >> cover all their individual needs. >> >> So, where does that leave us. Research and development will continue on >> aspects of the semantic web concept. Actual implementations of specific >> successful solutions within specific domains will continue to occur. A >> globally accepted single approach to semantic representation in the spirit >> of the success of the original HTML Web will probably eventually occur. The >> promise, and scope, of benefits are compelling and I am keeping the faith. >> However, my expectation for the time of redemption has been extended >> significantly. >> >> John Flynn >> http://semanticsimulations.com >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Brent Shambaugh [mailto:brent.shambaugh@gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, April 28, 2017 7:12 PM >> To: semantic-web@w3.org >> Subject: Keeping the Faith >> >> General Question: >> >> How do you keep the faith or vision with respect to semantic web and linked >> data? I'm also in an area where there is not a lot of venture capital (well >> some) nor (many) people having a lot of understanding of the area. At least >> it does not score you a talk. Is the field of dreams mentality of "if you >> build it, he will come"? >> >> -Brent Shambaugh >> >> GitHub: https://github.com/bshambaugh >> Website: http://bshambaugh.org/ >> LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brent-shambaugh-9b91259 >> Skype: brent.shambaugh >> Twitter: https://twitter.com/Brent_Shambaugh >> WebID: http://bshambaugh.org/foaf.rdf#me >> >> >>
Received on Sunday, 7 May 2017 18:28:56 UTC