- From: Martynas Jusevicius <martynas@graphity.org>
- Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2012 23:29:02 +0300
- To: Kjetil Kjernsmo <kjetil@kjernsmo.net>
- Cc: semantic-web@w3.org, Timothy Armstrong <tim.armstrong@gmx.com>
Kjeltil, I think SPARQL and XSLT based approach is not a dead end, but the way to go :) And we've gone quite far on it already. As I tried explaining to Timothy, XSLT or similar templating technologies enable generic applications that are not possible using the OO approach. That's the V in my MVC - where M is Jena and the triplestore, and C is JAX-RS. My generic take on building semantic (web) applications: - define app ontology (think sitemap) that imports other if necessary - add queries if necessary - define layout template that imports default one if necessary - on request - process custom code if necessary - match resource - bind parameters and execute query if necessary - bind parameters and execute transformation if necessary - write out the result into response Successfully adopted in production webapps using Graphity. Ping me for more information if interested :) Martynas graphity.org On Tue, Sep 11, 2012 at 10:49 PM, Kjetil Kjernsmo <kjetil@kjernsmo.net> wrote: > On Tuesday 11. September 2012 15.07.32 Timothy Armstrong wrote: >> Well I'm glad people are talking to me, but I'm just surprised I'm >> really not getting people to say much positive. > > I'll say something positive, then! :-) I think you're on to something very > interesting and valuable, and something I've been thinking about for some > time too. > > I have also developed projects using SPARQL and XSLT like others, but > unlike others, I don't think it is at all the way to go. While writing > recursive, cross-referential XSLT did give me some kind of perverse > intellectual satisfaction, it takes way too much time compared to how web > applications are developed these days. Instead, I started working on RDFa- > based templating, but there was little interest. Nowadays, Callimachus has > done that direction really well. However, I think that too is going to > prove a dead end. The MVC pattern doesn't make sense on the server anymore, > now that people do most of their view stuff on the client anyway. Still, > there is a lot of stuff that needs to happen on the server side to provide > the client with exactly the right data and enable exactly the right > interactions. > > In light of this, I think it is important to give developers good server- > side tools. However, I'm not sure that Java is the right tool for the job, > mainly for two reasons. I have admittedly not have had the time to read > your paper in full, so excuse me if you have dealt with it already. The > first is that the translation needs to happen not only at compile time, but > also (optionally) at runtime. If you can't do it at runtime, you're not > exploiting the dynamic nature of the Semantic Web, and so, you could > generate classes (or instantiate objects) based on any old competing > technology. > > Secondly, OWL has multiple inheritance, and that is, in OOP terms, a very > messy concept, and Interfaces far from capture what's interesting. I think > a lot more research is needed in that direction. To do this properly, I > think you need traits, with explicit conflict resolution, you need to be > able to compose behaviour in a much more rigorous manner. See the traits > research here: > http://scg.unibe.ch/research/traits > > The Perl community has done a little bit of work in this direction, most > recently, Konstantin Baierer with MooseX::Semantic: > https://metacpan.org/module/MooseX::Semantic > > At a recent hackathon, we had a brief discussion about how this should be > used and the business models around it. That was the harder part of the > conversation, actually. > > So, while I think that the (too) static nature of Java and its lack of > composable behaviour, I still think it is interesting enough to encourage > you to write the code and see where it takes you. > > Best, > > Kjetil > >
Received on Tuesday, 11 September 2012 20:29:30 UTC