- From: Denny Vrandečić <denny.vrandecic@wikimedia.de>
- Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2012 10:21:48 +0200
- To: Daniel Garijo <dgarijo@fi.upm.es>
- Cc: "semantic-web@w3.org Web" <semantic-web@w3.org>, Oscar Corcho <ocorcho@fi.upm.es>, Asunción Gómez Pérez <asun@fi.upm.es>
Hi Daniel, thank you for the comments. This further validates the approach we have selected. I am also happy to see the relevant Provenance ontology properties listed for easier reference. I dislike blank nodes due to several reasons, and I do not see any advantage for consumers or reusers of data when blank nodes are used. I see a minor advantage for authors, as they can omit the work of creating an IRI. If someone from the outside wanted to address a statement from Wikidata, e.g. to state that they like it, or that they consider it not true, etc., a blank node would not allow them to do so. IRIs seem a more natural choice for a web that wants to further interconnection and reuse. Cheers, Denny 2012/8/8 Daniel Garijo <dgarijo@fi.upm.es>: > Hi Denny, > sorry for jumping in a bit late in the thread. > In the Ontology Engineering Group we published last year a whole provenance > dataset [1] > relying on the Open Provenance Model [2], which also uses the n-ary pattern > to qualify > some properties (in a very similar way to PROV). Although we are moving > towards PROV, > it may illustrate you how to publish and exploit your data with a lot of > examples :) > > If you are planning to add any provenance information (by looking at the > wiki the properties > that may be useful for you are prov:wasDerivedFrom, prov:wasRevisionOf, > prov:wasInfluencedBy > or prov:hadPrimarySource, as Jun suggested) I would like to encourage you to > align your approach > with PROV's, it will make your records more interoperable. > > Finally (and just for the record) you don't need to create ids for the > qualified statements when > you want to add extra information. Sometimes creating a blank node is > enough. For example, > the qualified ground triple could be represented as: > w:Berlin s:Population [ > rdf:type o:Statement ; > v:Population "3499879"^^xsd:integer ; > q:As_of "2011-11-30"^^xsd:date ; > q:Method w:Extrapolation ; > rdfs:label "3,499,879 (As of Nov 30, 2011, Method Extrapolation)"^en > . > ] > The approach you have followed is also valid. > I hope this helps. > > Cheers, > Daniel > > [1].- http://webenemasuno.linkeddata.es/index_en.html, (SPARQL with examples > at http://webenemasuno.linkeddata.es/sparql_en.html) > [2].- http://openprovenance.org/ > > 2012/8/8 Denny Vrandečić <denny.vrandecic@wikimedia.de> >> >> Hi Hugh, >> >> thank you for the pointer. I had heard about CIDOC CRM, but I have not >> had realized how close it is to what we are doing. My trouble is that >> there are now at least 200 pages of specification for CIDOC CRM, and I >> tried to take a look at it, but I do not have the time to become an >> expert in CIDOC CRM myself. >> >> I either invite someone to create a draft of how our data model >> interplays with CIDOC CRM (E17 seems specifically) and what effect >> this has on our export (my assumption is that some of the URIs we use >> can actually be replaced by CIDOC URIs), or to have a discussion with >> me to see how they fit together. >> >> But thank you very much, this seems to be indeed much closer to >> Wikidata than I expected, by far. >> >> Cheers, >> Denny >> >> >> 2012/8/8 Hugh Glaser <hg@ecs.soton.ac.uk>: >> > Hi Denny, >> > Great stuff. >> > I've been watching the discussion, and am puzzled a bit about what you >> > are modelling. >> > This message gets me to ask :-) >> > What you are doing looks very like what cultural heritage (museums, >> > libraries, archeologists, etc.) do. >> > A model that seems to work very well for all this is CIDOC/CRM, which is >> > in active use or consideration by a wide range of organisations from >> > cultural heritage. >> > http://www.cidoc-crm.org/official_release_cidoc.html >> > >> > It is what we used for some work at the British Museum, and OCLC, >> > Europeana, and various archeological places, for example. >> > >> > CIDOC/CRM is an event-based model. >> > This means it looks slightly strange to people who are used to making >> > statements about things, and think they are true, rather than an opinion, >> > but it comes very naturally once the power is understood; and it is not hard >> > to query. >> > >> > But it copes with statements made at different times, and even >> > conflicting ones. >> > >> > Just wondering if it is a closely related application area, and if you >> > had considered it. >> > Best >> > Hugh >> > >> > >> > On 8 Aug 2012, at 13:05, Denny Vrandečić <denny.vrandecic@wikimedia.de> >> > wrote: >> > >> >> Hi Jun, >> >> >> >> thank you for taking the time to look into the document and comment it. >> >> >> >> I expect that Wikipedia will almost never be the source for a >> >> statement expressed in Wikidata, as Wikipedia will probably not be >> >> regarded as a reliable source. >> >> >> >> In the example you link to are two statements: >> >> >> >> 1) Berlin has a population of 3,499,879 as of Nov 30, 2011, the method >> >> for deriving this was an extrapolation >> >> >> >> 2) Berlin has a population of 8,000 as of the 15th century >> >> >> >> Statement 1 has in the example no sources, but a good source would be >> >> the statistical yearbook of Germany, 2012 edition. >> >> >> >> Statement 2 has one source in the example, and this could be, e.g. a >> >> scientific paper about the development of the population of European >> >> cities in mediavel times. >> >> >> >> The method and the time are both not provenance information, but >> >> qualifiers of the statements and thus part of the statement. >> >> >> >> Every statement has an IRI. And the source will also have an IRI >> >> describing it (i.e. an IRI for the statistical yearbook, an IRI for >> >> the mentioned paper). >> >> >> >> What I did not figure out is: which property from the provenance >> >> ontology can I use to connect the statement IRI to the source IRI? >> >> >> >> Thank you for your help! >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Denny >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> 2012/8/8 Jun Zhao <jun.zhao@zoo.ox.ac.uk>: >> >>> Hi Denny, >> >>> >> >>> I have been looking for the motivation of this work on your page [1]. >> >>> I >> >>> guessed that your main goal was trying to express facts about the same >> >>> entity but coming from different perspectives and sources? Did you get >> >>> all >> >>> of these diverse facts from wikipedia? It will be nice to have one >> >>> step >> >>> further provenance statements than just saying "Method Extrapolation" >> >>> or "as >> >>> of 15th century". >> >>> >> >>> The patterns you used here are highly related to PROV [2,3], >> >>> particularly >> >>> the bundle and qualification structure of the latest PROV data model. >> >>> Please >> >>> do not hesitate to ping us if you find any impracticality or even >> >>> problems >> >>> in the current model. We will really appreciate your feedback! >> >>> >> >>> [1] http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Development/RDF >> >>> [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-dm/ >> >>> [3] http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-o/ >> >>> >> >>> Good work! >> >>> >> >>> Cheers, >> >>> >> >>> Jun >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On 08/08/2012 11:32, Denny Vrandečić wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>> Ivan, >> >>>> >> >>>> thank you! That is reassuring to hear that we are not without >> >>>> precedent :) >> >>>> >> >>>> We are investigating how we could use the provenance ontology, as we >> >>>> sure would like to reuse existing stuff instead of inventing new one. >> >>>> >> >>>> Cheers, >> >>>> Denny >> >>>> >> >>>> 2012/8/7 Ivan Herman <ivan@w3.org>: >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Denny, >> >>>>> >> >>>>> fwiw, the approach you take is very similar to what the Provenance >> >>>>> Working group took in the upcoming Prov vocabulary. Look, for >> >>>>> example, in >> >>>>> >> >>>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-primer/ >> >>>>> >> >>>>> and for 'qualifiedXXXX'. Essentially, if there is a property 'p' >> >>>>> then the >> >>>>> 'qualifiedP' is another property whose range is an object of a >> >>>>> specific type >> >>>>> that has the other information. Same as our s:Population. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> As an aside, the good thing is that it may make it easier to use the >> >>>>> provenance vocabulary in your setup if you want to:-) >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Cheers >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Ivan >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Aug 6, 2012, at 12:03 , Denny Vrandečić wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> Hi all, >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> we have created the first draft of the Wikidata export in RDF. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Development/RDF> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I am inviting the Semantic Web and Linked Data community to a >> >>>>>> discussion about it. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Cheers, >> >>>>>> Denny >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> -- >> >>>>>> Project director Wikidata >> >>>>>> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin >> >>>>>> Tel. +49-30-219 158 26-0 | http://wikimedia.de >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens >> >>>>>> e.V. >> >>>>>> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts >> >>>>>> Berlin-Charlottenburg >> >>>>>> unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das >> >>>>>> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> ---- >> >>>>> Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead >> >>>>> Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/ >> >>>>> mobile: +31-641044153 >> >>>>> FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> Jun Zhao, PhD >> >>> EPSRC Postdoctoral Fellow >> >>> Department of Zoology >> >>> University of Oxford >> >>> Tinbergen Building, South Parks Road >> >>> Oxford, OX1 3PS, UK >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Project director Wikidata >> >> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin >> >> Tel. +49-30-219 158 26-0 | http://wikimedia.de >> >> >> >> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. >> >> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg >> >> unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das >> >> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Project director Wikidata >> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin >> Tel. +49-30-219 158 26-0 | http://wikimedia.de >> >> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. >> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg >> unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das >> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. >> > -- Project director Wikidata Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. | Obentrautstr. 72 | 10963 Berlin Tel. +49-30-219 158 26-0 | http://wikimedia.de Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e.V. Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg unter der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985.
Received on Thursday, 9 August 2012 08:22:16 UTC