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Re: Enquire - WWW - Semantic Desktop/PersonalDataWiki? do you agree?

From: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2010 17:47:42 +0100
Message-ID: <AANLkTimRhu8eGVAUn7QTr1_1HEmx2Mk5MGvFcfWmERsq@mail.gmail.com>
To: ProjectParadigm-ICT-Program <metadataportals@yahoo.com>
Cc: Leo Sauermann <leo.sauermann@gnowsis.com>, SWIG <semantic-web@w3.org>, Juan Sequeda <juanfederico@gmail.com>
On 22 November 2010 17:29, ProjectParadigm-ICT-Program <
metadataportals@yahoo.com> wrote:

> We are lost in semantics here and digressing from the real issue.
>
> You find the comparison of ease of understanding quantum mechanics to the
> semantic web incorrect, but so is yours when you describe the semantic web
> as deceptively simple.
>
> Neither will strike the average layman, who is not well versed in
> mathematics to even understand the basics of graph theory, first order logic
> or ontology for that matter without getting lost in the details, as being
> true.
>
> If you are a modern investor it takes a considerable amount of effort to be
> willing to try to grasp the concepts of cloud computing, open source
> software, open access, open repositories and semantic web in a conceptual
> grand scheme from which to derive useful commercial and corporate
> applications.
>
> While the semantic web is clear in its setup and concepts, it is NOT easy
> for the average layman to grasp in its actual workings and technical
> details.
>
> As for quantum mechanics and string theory, at least these have had popular
> science programs on TV in the US and UK try to convey in the simplest
> possible terms what these theories are all about.
>
> The semantic web has yet to get the same coverage.
>
> There is a whole world of semantics between understanding and grasping and
> I should have been more precise, when referring to quantum mechanics and
> string theory.
>
> For this I offer my apology.


Very fair point, sorry for the digression, was unable to resist ... :)


>
>
> Milton Ponson
> GSM: +297 747 8280
> PO Box 1154, Oranjestad
> Aruba, Dutch Caribbean
> Project Paradigm: A structured approach to bringing the tools for
> sustainable development to all stakeholders worldwide by creating ICT
> tools for NGOs worldwide and: providing online access to web sites and
> repositories of data and information for sustainable development
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
> If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.
> This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the
> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>
>
> --- On *Mon, 11/22/10, Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Melvin Carvalho <melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
>
> Subject: Re: Enquire - WWW - Semantic Desktop/PersonalDataWiki? do you
> agree?
> To: "ProjectParadigm-ICT-Program" <metadataportals@yahoo.com>
> Cc: "Leo Sauermann" <leo.sauermann@gnowsis.com>, "SWIG" <
> semantic-web@w3.org>, "Juan Sequeda" <juanfederico@gmail.com>
> Date: Monday, November 22, 2010, 3:23 PM
>
>
>
>
> On 22 November 2010 14:58, ProjectParadigm-ICT-Program <
> metadataportals@yahoo.com <http://mc/compose?to=metadataportals@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> As a more generalist ICT person I have been following this thread with
> quite some interest and its seems to me that there are some fundamental
> questions that need to be answered!
>
> The Semantic Web is at a crossroads right now with Google and Drupal and
> quite a few other players considerably increasing its visibility.
>
> Dozens of FOSS, open access and open repository oriented collaboration
> groups, some non-profits, some coops and some in the grey area of undefined
> skunk works are trying to incorporate semantic web technologies or at least
> enable use of linked data.
>
> Most of them haven't got a clue where to start.
>
> Which demands clarity from those who DO know, like the W3C technical
> committees and most of the members of the assorted lists of the W3C, which
> are either in the academia, mainstream or niche market software markets or
> in research or related fields.
>
> I understand the problem Leo faces, but I sincerely ask myself if it is
> merely a question of sales pitch, semantics (pardon the pun) or finding a
> convincing outlook for the development of new technologies for some angel or
> other investor to be willing to invest in.
>
> The really fundamental questions that need to be answered are:
>
>
>    1. Is the current state of SW technologies and standards able to
>    deliver? I am a mathematician myself, and I must admit that I find it easier
>    to understand the mathematics of quantum physics and string theory than get
>    through the learning curve of the semantic web, all of its layers and tools.
>    Just imagine having to tackle this same problem in any corporate board
>    meeting room.
>
>
> Having studied mathematics under the Lucasian Professor, Stephen Hawking, I
> have a tough time agreeing this argument. :)
>
> The Web of Data, on the other hand is deceptively simple, and it is
> possible to give an overview in a few sentences.  It is an Entity Attribute
> Value model to create a graph (aka web).  That's about it.  Yes there's a
> LOT of tools, and it IS a huge maze, and documentation is weak.  But so are
> there are lot of iphone apps, and people manage with that.  Linux has a ton
> of apps, and it took something like Ubuntu to come along and make it super
> usable, why cant the same happen with the Sem Web tool chain?  Boards of
> directors went through the same process with the Web of Documents.
>
> Linked data principles is of similar elegance to Newton's (another Lucasian
> profesor incidentally) laws of motion, imho.
>
> Wasn't it Richard Feynman who said that NO ONE understand quantum physics?
> As for String theory -- 11 dimenions -- what?  To my knowledge I've never
> seen anyone able give an overview to use these tools to even give a THEORY
> of something as basic as why objects fall to the ground (gravity).
>
> But most of all, I use the Sem Web increasingly every day in my daily life
> -- what's wrong with the 'learning by doing' approach, probably not
> something you can easily apply to the theories you mentioned?
>
> </rant> :)
>
>
>
>
>
>    1. Are there sufficient big players out there supporting the semantic
>    web? Google, FaceBook and Drupal are a good start, but what SAP and Oracle,
>    who control quite a bit of corporate information management products? And
>    e.g. what about niche market companies like Wolfram?
>    2. What guarantees will an investor have that when he sinks millions
>    into a new project someone out there working on a shoestring budget,a diet
>    of junk food and extra caffeinated drinks and sheer will power to deliver
>    the next killer app does just that and makes it freeware, having figured out
>    the business model to recoup on his efforts will materialize sooner or
>    later? The movie The Social Network has got a lot of savvy developers
>    thinking about hitting it big like Zuckerberg did.
>    3. There is little current market research done on what are the
>    potential applications of SW and linked data technologies in markets that
>    would be the most indicated to embrace these. If we do not know where to go
>    from here and who would be willing to embrace these applications, for which
>    markets are we developing these?
>    4. Can anyone give us a breakdown of global ICT usage or on a country
>    by country comparative basis in terms of types of applications used per
>    software product segment and per industry segment and per end-users and per
>    corporate financial decision-maker authorizing and corporate IT manager
>    recommending the purchase thereof? Without this it becomes hard to figure
>    out where to fit in SW best
>
> These are nasty questions, but then again I did not create these on the
> spot, but after some hard soul searching and brainstorming in quite a few
> other less technical savvy groups like the lists of the W3C, we came up
> with.
>
> And for a fact both the European Union and the United Nations have pointed
> out and more recently the ITU that ICT needs to be more focused on getting
> really needed applications to those most in need of them to tackle real life
> problems and the problems of industry in this hectic and financially
> constrained world of ours.
>
> There is nothing more frustrating than knowing as an engineer that you have
> been working day and night for years on end on a product that is right, can
> deliver and will innovate, to run into the obstacles the real world of
> market economics throws at you that can stop you dead in your tracks unless
> you can somehow convert those obstacles into opportunities to your
> advantage.
>
> Maybe you need a market segment that is in dire need of untangling its
> daily overload of information and getting its work done.
>
> Go to www.reliefweb.int and see the people who are MOST in needed of
> making sense of the data and information jungle, because they need to save
> lives every single day.
>
> Linked to reliefweb.int are high end (wireless) network communications and
> IT companies, pharmaceutical and health care industries, civilian and
> military logistics, supply-and-demand chain services etc. all market
> segments with high usage and adoption rates of semantic web technologies.
>
> There are hundreds of funds willing to shell out money for this work if it
> saves lives.
>
> Maybe carving out a niche market first and when it has delivered and you
> have a success story on your hands, you can diversify into other mainstream
> market segments is an approach.
>
> The other would be to do an internet or targeted survey yourself and find
> out what people would want your product to do.
>
> The Gnowsis product has merit but it will be tricky to convince investors
> and intended users to accept the arguments in favor.
>
> Milton Ponson
> GSM: +297 747 8280
> PO Box 1154, Oranjestad
> Aruba, Dutch Caribbean
> Project Paradigm: A structured approach to bringing the tools for
> sustainable development to all stakeholders worldwide by creating ICT
> tools for NGOs worldwide and: providing online access to web sites and
> repositories of data and information for sustainable development
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended
> solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.
> If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager.
> This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the
> individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not
> disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail.
>
>
> --- On *Mon, 11/22/10, Leo Sauermann <leo.sauermann@gnowsis.com<http://mc/compose?to=leo.sauermann@gnowsis.com>
> >* wrote:
>
>
> From: Leo Sauermann <leo.sauermann@gnowsis.com<http://mc/compose?to=leo.sauermann@gnowsis.com>
> >
>
> Subject: Re: Enquire - WWW - Semantic Desktop/PersonalDataWiki? do you
> agree?
> To: "Melvin Carvalho" <melvincarvalho@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=melvincarvalho@gmail.com>
> >
> Cc: "SWIG" <semantic-web@w3.org <http://mc/compose?to=semantic-web@w3.org>>,
> "Juan Sequeda" <juanfederico@gmail.com<http://mc/compose?to=juanfederico@gmail.com>
> >
> Date: Monday, November 22, 2010, 10:43 AM
>
>
> Hi Melvin, Juan, SWIG
>
> (I took timbl now out of cc as he didn't react... will ping him somehow on
> #swig about it)
>
> Juan:
> my pitch starts with "Hello, my name is Leo Sauermann and I can't remember
> anything... (dramatic pause for people to feel - ahhh.mee to)... thats why I
> write down things on my computer. But then I don't find them when I need
> them.."
> This evolved over 8 years of pitching, it quite works ;-)
> but yes - I only mention "semantic" once in my pitch. We learned that too.
> The salespeople from ontoprise.de (one of the oldest companies in our
> sector) also use "searching" more than "semantics".
>
> Melvin: ha, frivolity is welcome, you answered in the right tone. Life
> isn't as serious as they think ;-)
>
> Where did you find that one?
> http://www.w3.org/2007/09/map/main.jpg
> On the map - I fear that mountain where Ted Nelson sits at the end of
> Xanadu....read the last words of that article:
> http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/3.06/xanadu.html
> But again, Enquire misses on the map.
>
> Thanks for the Warren Buffet comparison, I can use that.
>
> URIs: right, they are the second important part
> I didn't really understand how to identify concepts until Richard and I
> co-edited that one:
> http://www.w3.org/TR/cooluris/
> What was missing was URIs for Microsoft Outlook Entries and other things in
> daily life, we added that within Gnowsis/Cluug.
>
> Jung/Journeys/...
> Probably its easier to talk about this once a million people use it. I just
> wondered if it would work *before* we release it based on historic clues
> leading towards a semantic personal information management system. Our task
> here at Gnowsis is to reach these customers... lets see...
>
> best
> Leo
>
>
> It was Melvin Carvalho who said at the right time 18.11.2010 17:31 the
> following words:
>
> On 18 November 2010 08:27, Leo Sauermann <leo.sauermann@gnowsis.com> <http://mc/compose?to=leo.sauermann@gnowsis.com> wrote:
>
>  Dear Tim,
> SWIG
>
>
> My Current Task is somehow tricky:
>
> I am pitching our company Gnowsis to investors. It makes an Enquire-Like
> Semantic Desktop, a personal semantic web. It seems investors
>
> only understand anything on the level of "we do twitter for dogs" or "it
> sells crowdsourced clothes via mobile phones".
>
>  You are at a disadvantage.  Most investors cannot see further than a
> two year horizon.  In fact, in many cases it is forbidden.
>
> The attractive thing about The Web is that it will likely achieve
> double digit growth for decades to come.  The great investors
>
> understand this.  Warren Buffett, the richest man in the world, and
> probably considered the best investor ever, has achieved 21% growth
> for around 40 years.  The (Semantic) Web can easily match that.
> Almost no other technology can.  That's the angle.
>
>
> The concept that good investors understand, is the network effect, or
> a better term the Web Effect.  This is the synergies created by
> connecting a growing number of people using Web Standards, of which,
> facebook is a microcosm.  Looking at Mark Z's latest talk he is
>
> starting to get it.  A graph of People, a Graph of Things:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Czw-dtTP6oU&feature=player_embedded
>
>
> Your business advantage is of 'first mover'.  This is a double edged
> sword, on the one hand you start off further down the learning curve,
> but on the other new entrants can use newer technologies.  However,
>
> first mover has worked for google (web scale), and for amazon, ebay
> etc.   I think those are the angles to pitch, it helps if you have
> some good long term value investors in your network.  There are some
> in Vienna.
>
>
>
> So Tim, as Elder of the Web, I turn to you for an expert opinion to
> reassure we do a useful thing.
>
>
> Here are the Statements I patch together from "weaving the web" etc.:
>
> Enquire - linking everything bidirectionally is an
>
> entire new way of writing.
> I guess you also realized that the system changes the way you look at
> things and your
> thinking.
>
> WWW - give everyone a tool (read/write) web that everyone
> can publish information. The links are first unidirectional and untyped
>
> and will be typed
> "later", once the RDF riddle was solved in 1999.
>
> SemanticDesktop/PersonalDataWikis/PersonalSemanticWeb - we finally give
> the peoples the
> Enquire that Tim already used in the distant and mysterious past.
>
> The first distributable results are NEPOMUK-KDE, PesonalDataWikis,
> Personal Data Lockers, and services around this idea of personal
> semantic web services for personal
>  information
>  management.
>
>  I think these will all be killer apps that will grow with the
> ecosystem, and gaining from the law of 'unintended consequences' that
> drove the Web of Documents.
>
> The link is only one half of the Web (of any graph).  The "URI" is the
>
> precious stone set in a silver sea.
>
> I'd recommend reading 1 essay a week in
>
> http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/
>
> I still do on an daily basis.  I am always learning.
>
>
> The UDI (Universal Document Identifier) enables The Web of Documents.
> The URI will enable the Web of Resources.
>
> Remember one KEY point.  Universal does not mean Unique.  Universal
> brings things together, seeks commonalities (we mathematicians call
>
> them 'invariants', philosophers call them 'archetypes').  This idea
> has always been one of the foundational building block of
>  mathematics,
> of science, of
>  culture, and now of The Web.  More on this later.
>
> Give things Universal Identifiers and use Web Standards, and watch
> their usefulness grow and grow, relative to everything else.  As an
>
> initial adopter you're able to create most value than your competitors
> and hopefully receive most reward.
>
>
> The question:
> Tim,
> Is this THE idea?
>
> Do you agree this is a sensible thing to do?
>
>
>
> If yes, then my argumentation to investors and to myself is:
> "TimBl basically inventend blogging, wikipedia, and twitter with the
>
> idea of a read/write WWW, which it originally always included. You can
> trust that guy to be clever. You can also be assured this was around
> before, some ideas for millenia, some since Memex.
> Now Gnowsis works to realize the proto-idea - Enquire. There must be
>
> something going on here. Dear Investors, look at it, spend some time
> understanding what happens here with technology and then invest."
>
>  Think about long term sustained exponential growth of your ecosystem,
> with your company defending a greater and greater share of that value.
>  People always tend to think that they are either at the beginning or
>
> the end of a journey.  But the Web Effect is in play and, continues
> its march exponentially.  Simply look at 2009 (gov) and 2010 (facebook
> ogp, google good relations, and so much more).  I think 2011 is going
> to be the year of the apps.  Gnowsis hopefully will make some of the
>
> best!
>
>
> Sometimes I feel like Frodo and together with Bernhard "Sam" Schandl we
> go alone to Mount Doom ("Microsoft Outlook") to finally throw the Ring
> of RDF into its center, to crack it open to the web. Then I see you guys
>
> over at the Minas Tirith of LinkedOpenData and data.gov and the battles
> Martin Hepp fights with GoodRelations and ... there is hope :-)
>
>  Regarding email, did you take a look at rapportive?
>
> http://rapportive.com/
>
> A nice semantic tool that enhances email using the social graph.  I'm
>
> using it now, it's a cool UX.  Simple tool that makes things just a
> little bit better.  Perhaps this is the kind of demo that will inspire
> an investor.
>
> I like the Lord of the Rings analogy.  There can be no doubt that Lord
>
> of the Rings was influenced by the 'Universal' Story.  The idea of the
> monomyth, articulated so well by Jung and Campbell.  This is a story
> that has happened before, and it will happen again and again.  It
>
> happens every day.  My favorite video on the web, recorded 1987
> explains this quite well.  Universal does not mean Unique!
>
> http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1780052864372164593#
>
>
> "Man does not weave this web of life. He is merely a strand of it.
> Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself." was written in1854
> and we are talking about weaving the web today!
>
> I like your jest.  The Web may show a resemblance of Middle Earth, but
>
> it is not a copy.
>
> http://www.w3.org/2007/09/map/main.jpg
>
> Understand that The Web is about Universality.  The Web i about
>
> tolerance.  We are all Tolkien's characters traveling through The Web
> on a great journey.  Some are the hobbits, some are the wizards, and
> some are the Orcs created to mock the elves (I'll let you decide which
>
> is which :)).
>
> But the hero is the one who can make this journey
>  decently, can make
> it
>  in a way that is respectful and tolerant.  Someone that can first
> look to create value or those less fortunate with their work and toil.
>  And maybe just manage to make the long hard journey to cast down the
>
> One Ring, and allow us all to bask in the sunlight uplands of The Web
> :)
>
> Just my 2 cents (apologies in advance for the frivolity) :)
>
>
>
> ok, looking for interesting answers
> best
> Leo Sauermann, Dr.
> CEO and Founder
>
> mail: leo.sauermann@gnowsis.com <http://mc/compose?to=leo.sauermann@gnowsis.com>
>
> mobile: +43 6991 gnowsis
> http://www.gnowsis.com
>
> helping people remember,
>
> so join our newsletter
> http://www.gnowsis.com/about/content/newsletter
>
> ____________________________________________________
>
>
>
> --
> Leo Sauermann, Dr.
> CEO and Founder
>
> mail: leo.sauermann@gnowsis.com <http://mc/compose?to=leo.sauermann@gnowsis.com>
> mobile: +43 6991 gnowsis
>
> http://www.gnowsis.com
>
> helping people remember,
>
> so join our newsletter
> http://www.gnowsis.com/about/content/newsletter
>
> ____________________________________________________
>
>
>
>
>
Received on Monday, 22 November 2010 16:48:17 UTC

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