- From: Edward Bryant <edward.bryant@gmail.com>
- Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 15:50:18 -0500
- To: semantic-web@w3.org
- Message-ID: <4ccf35820709121350x8cc6964sa566b246cc39e7b5@mail.gmail.com>
Oskar, Just my 2 cents, but wouldn't you use http://my.blog.tld/ to refer to the blog and http://my.blog.tld/index... or http://my.blog.tld/?start=1 to refer to the blog's first page of ten posts? I would think that the URL http://www.example.com/ without more should never be used to refer to a specific page of a site, simply because its not specific enough and that a reference to a specific page as an information resource should not depend on which specific page a server responds to the base URL with ( e.g., index.html, index.php, index.php5, etc.) I just started learning this myself, so someone please correct me if I am off base here. Ed On 8/30/07, Oskar Welzl <lists@welzl.info> wrote: > > > Am Donnerstag, den 30.08.2007, 22:28 +0200 schrieb Reto Bachmann-Gmür: > > But talking about standards, why is this discussion on a list which has > > been replaced by semantic-web@w3.org? > > dumb boy hit [reply] again; changed it now. > Maybe we'll have to change to topic, too, soon: This is going to be > somewhat > like "What's the content of an information resource"? > > Am Donnerstag, den 30.08.2007, 22:30 +0200 schrieb Reto Bachmann-Gmür: > > Oskar Welzl wrote: > > > Pity, though, that there hardly seems to be an agreement on how to > > > handle this issue, so simply by choosing the above URI myself I will > not > > > prevent *others* making statements like > > > <#thismail> mail:sender <http://oskar.twoday.net> > > > when they refer to an update-notification they received from the > weblog. > > > > > Reading this I think I misunderstood what you mean with "blog" I was > > referring to a blog as a changing collection of articles not as > > something that sends email. If we agree that an information resource > > can't be the mail:sender of a mail then the statement > > > > <#thismail> mail:sender <http://oskar.twoday.net> > > > > is necessarily wrong, as a GET request to http://oskar.twoday.net is > > responded with a 2XX response and with this response the resource in > > unambiguously an information[1]. resource. > > Well, the "sending mail"-example was certainly the outer limit of > nonsense I could possibly construct to get the message through, but I > meanwhile think my confusion has a different cause (and it was you who > pointed me to it): > > Lets forget for a minute that a blog is more than just a collection of > posts and usually has properties like "allowsCommentsFrom", > "offersFeedType", "Blogroll" etc. > Assume that it *is* a mere collection of posts, sorted by date, latest > first, 10 per page. Period. You type http://my.blog.tld in your browser > to go there, subsequent pages can be reached with > http://my.blog.tld/?start=11 etc. > > In one of your previous posts you wrote: > "A Blog is an Information Resource which could be described as > an ordered collection of posts, the HTML returned by the webserver is > (or should be) a suitable representation of that thing." > I didn't like this idea first (and said so, IIRC ;) ...), but it seems > logical to me now. *If* we think of a collection of posts and nothing > else, it would probably fit the concept of an "Information resource". > And what URI other than http://my.blog.tld would we have to name it? > > On the other hand, the very content of the 10-posts-list returned by the > server (as what could be seen as the HTML-representation of the > information resource "blog") is an information resource in its own > right. Its "The 10 latest posts from my blog". No other way to refer to > it than via http://my.blog.tld again. Even in this simple construct, I > can make statements about http://my.blog.tld in one RDF-document that > contradict each other, like (in OTN, oskars triple notation): > > http://my.blog.tld dc:coverage a period from 2003-2007 > (this was about the blog) > > http://my.blog.tld dc:coverage a period from Juli-August 2007 > (this is about the 1st page of the blog) > > Same for statements about who commented there etc. - many can be true > for only one of the two information resources that are addressed by > http://my.blog.tld > > To get around this, my original assumption was that before using a URI > to name something, I should check if its suitable by narrowing the > "information resource" as much as possible: take the representation you > get, take all possible interpretations of what it represents (a blog, > the first 10 postings, the author himself) and always take the > narrowest. What you end up with is, almost always, only a little more > than "the document". I like this approach for its simplicity, but it > breaks a lot. Take SIOC as an example. sioc:forum/sioc:site is exactly > what we're talking about here; they always refer to it via a URI that > is, in fact, "the first page of the collection". This is not wrong as > such, it just creates ambiguity, which UIRs should not have. > > (In fact it was my current work on a SIOC-export that confronted my with > this boring question again after so many years.) > > Now I go the steep way and say that http://my.blog.tld, the blog, should > not be confused with http://my.blog.tld, the most recent posts. The blog > should have its own URI, as "10 most recent posts" is the narrower > construct. Next question: > I plan to use http://my.blog.tld/ID/names#thisblog as sioc:site and have > an RDF/XML-document at ../ID/names to further define #thisblog. Now how > do I point to the preferred link/bookmark/"entry point" (which is, of > course, http://my.blog.tld/) with a well-known vocabulary? I was tempted > to use rss:link, but am very unsure about it... (Not finding a usable > hint on Google made me even more uneasy with the whole topic, as this > suggests nobody on this planet ever thought of *not* using the URI of > the main page as the URI for the whole site.) > > So you see, even though there might have been a misunderstanding about > the concept of a "blog", this wasn't the cause of my problems. Even when > following your 'collection of posts'='information resource' definition, > I get deeper and deeper into trouble. > > You already got me on a better track once by pointing out the somewhat > vague definition of information resource - maybe you got some new input > for me to chew on ;) > > Thanks, > > Oskar > > >
Received on Wednesday, 12 September 2007 20:50:24 UTC