Re: Semantic Web Usability BOF in Busan

Setting up a wiki page on ESW is not a problem; but Roberto referred to
an existing page already. Whichever people feel is better.

I would still like to understand the issues first.

Is there some sort of a wiki or other option set up for ISWC
participants? It would be a good place to organize such ad hoc
get-togethers... I have tried to find at the ISWC page, but have not
found any.

Ivan

P.S. Leaving for Korea in about 5 hours...

editor@content-wire.com wrote:
> Dear Ivan and all
> 
> thanks for the interest in this issue
> it will be good to meet
> 
> It looks like from the responses so far that we have some momentum, and
> considering I cannot quite help with the debugging of the applications
> just as yet , I ll be happy to help foster a plan
> 
> Is there a W3C wiki page dedicated to Usability of Semantic Web where I
> can post some notes? If not shall I open a wiki elsewhere? Thanks
> 
> The people who have expressed explicit interest so far are
> Emmanuelle Sidar
> Tom Heath  Open U
> Knud Hinner Deri
> M Daquin Open U
> Hugh Glaser
> Roberto Garcia
> J Chetwynd
> Richard Cygniak
> Ivan Herman
> (update this list if I missed anyone)
> Adrian Walker sent some notes (havent read yet)
> [1]
> www.reengineeringllc.com/Internet_Business_Logic_e-Government_Presentation.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Except for those who are not in Busan, whom we shall keep posted of any
> discussions and outcomes on list,  I look forward to be meeting
> everybody in the next few days
> 
> Tom Heath suggests a  BOF meeting at lunch on Thursday, which may be
> fine for some but others may have flown already by then, so anyone who
> can make it for lunch contact Tom directly to get details/directions
> 
> I hope that maybe an additional/alternative informal get together before
> Thursday an be arranged, for those who still have a spare slot and may
> have left by Thursday -  email your availability and/or just catch me (
> I ll try to wear a tshirt
> that says SEMANTIC USABILITY  if I can get it printed on the fly)
> 
> i am best contacted via  paola.dimaio ATDONOTSPAMMEANYMORE gmail.com,
> but cannot post to list from there
> 
> With the OK of the organisers, I will put up a notice on the conference
> message board about details
> 
> Look forward!
> Thanks a lot for interest
> 
> Cheers
> Paola Di Maio
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ivan Herman" <ivan@w3.org>
> To: <editor@content-wire.com>
> Cc: <emmanuelle@sidar.org>; "'T.Heath'" <T.Heath@open.ac.uk>; "'SW-forum
> Web'" <semantic-web@w3.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 7:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Semantic Web Usability BOF in Busan
> 
> 
> I will be there. And I would like to understand the issues and whether
> W3C is in position to do something about those.
> 
> Note that W3C has been facing the issue of usability for a long time
> (Semantic or not Semantic Web) but we could never get enough member
> enthusiasm to start something more serious in the area.... (except for
> the web accessibility area which probably includes a subset of the
> general usability issues).
> 
> Ivan
> 
> editor@content-wire.com wrote:
>>
>> I think Tom and I and others may meet in Busan next week, this is
>> something I ll put in my agenda too to instigate about. Anyone else on
>> this list is going to be in Busan, and has an interest in Usability and
>> Accessibility and related issues, please mail me online and I ll post
>> details of any time/place suggested for an informal get together to
>> scheme something up
>> cheers
>> Paola Di Maio
>> www.mfu.ac.th
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emmanuelle Gutiรฉrrez y Restrepo"
>> <emmanuelle@sidar.org>
>> To: "'T.Heath'" <T.Heath@open.ac.uk>; <editor@content-wire.com>;
>> "'SW-forum Web'" <semantic-web@w3.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 7:01 AM
>> Subject: RE: User testing for semantic applicatons
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Tom and all,
>>
>> Yes, you are right, and it has not been my intention, "tar you all
>> with the
>> same brush".
>> But I know a lot of developers of semantics applications, which are nice,
>> intelligent, and whom I greatly appreciate; And yet not often worry about
>> the accessibility of his creatures.
>>
>> I think that the Paola's idea can be useful. We are working in some
>> similar,
>> so maybe we can work on it togheter.
>>
>> And we can think in another ideas. But I think that the W3C has some
>> type of
>> responsability on it too. And I'm sure that they can do something
>> about it.
>>
>> All the best,
>> Emmanuelle
>>
>> Emmanuelle Gutiรฉrrez y Restrepo  Fundaciรณn Sidar
>> Coordinadora del SIDAR www.sidar.org
>> Email: coordina@sidar.org
>> Tel.: +34 - 91 725 71 47
>>
>> -----Mensaje original-----
>> De: T.Heath [mailto:T.Heath@open.ac.uk]
>> Enviado el: miรฉrcoles, 07 de noviembre de 2007 16:04
>> Para: emmanuelle@sidar.org; editor@content-wire.com; SW-forum Web
>> Asunto: RE: User testing for semantic applicatons
>>
>> Hi Emmanuelle,
>>
>> I understand and share your apparent frustration, but please don't
>> "tar us
>> all with the same brush" [1] :) There are many people working in the
>> Semantic Web field who care deeply about understanding, and catering to,
>> the
>> needs of human users (yes, you and I agree, humans are the Semantic Web's
>> ultimate target audience). Last year's SWUI workshop at ISWC [2] and the
>> next in the series [3] at CHI2008 are good indicators of this commitment.
>>
>> Sadly, and despite this, the human agenda doesn't always get the
>> recognition
>> it deserves in the community. Some additional initiatives in this area
>> would
>> be a great idea I think :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Tom.
>>
>> [1] http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/tar+with+the+same+brush
>> [2] http://swui.semanticweb.org/swui06/
>> [3] http://swui.semanticweb.org/SWUI2008CHI/
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: semantic-web-request@w3.org on behalf of Emmanuelle Gutiรฉrrez y
>> Restrepo
>> Sent: Wed 07/11/2007 12:27 PM
>> To: editor@content-wire.com; 'SW-forum Web'
>> Subject: RE: User testing for semantic applicatons
>>
>> Hi "PDM",
>>
>> I agree with you. There are a lot of work around the "semantic web" and
>> maybe is a good work for the "machines". But I can't understand why the
>> people working on it don't care about accessibility. The semantic web is
>> nothing if can't be useful for the humans.
>>
>> Accessibility means usability for all. So, I think that complain with the
>> WCAG must be *prerequisite* for each semantic web application.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Emmanuelle Gutiรฉrrez y Restrepo         Fundaciรณn Sidar
>> Coordinadora del SIDAR                  www.sidar.org
>> Email: coordina@sidar.org
>> Tel.: +34 - 91 725 71 47
>>
>>
>>  _____
>>
>> De: semantic-web-request@w3.org [mailto:semantic-web-request@w3.org] En
>> nombre de editor@content-wire.com Enviado el: miรฉrcoles, 07 de
>> noviembre de
>> 2007 11:40
>> Para: SW-forum Web
>> Asunto: User testing for semantic applicatons
>>
>>
>> I must say something
>> There are a lot of cool applications coming up, I try most of them , but
>> they are new I am not sure what to expect exactly. What should it do?
>> How do
>> I know if there is an error, or if this is really the way it should look?
>> Little documentation, usability almost not taken into account etc.
>> Also I dont have all day, just a few minutes, a few clicks, then I lose
>> interest, must move on
>>
>> Now, the linked data below is quite straighforward intuitive interface
>> (not
>> bad in fact) although a few more explanations and how to's would be
>> good. I
>> also got an error when I tried it (different from the error below) not
>> sure
>> what to do next
>>
>> All this to suggest  a forum is created to handle usability of semantic
>> applications, where we 'users' can report our experiences and get some
>> help
>> in running/understanding the stuffs. I have a lot of feedback and user
>> tests
>> already running on semantic applications, may be most productive if
>> handled
>> collectively and shared, rather than just sent to the developers who are
>> likely not to understand my problem anyway (we seem to speak different
>> languages)
>>
>> thoughts?
>> cheers
>> PDM
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Tim Berners-Lee <mailto:timbl@w3.org>
>> To: Hugh Glaser <mailto:hg@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
>> Cc: Linking Open Data <mailto:linking-open-data@simile.mit.edu>  ;
>> SW-forum
>> Web <mailto:semantic-web@w3.org>  ; Ian  <mailto:icm@ecs.soton.ac.uk>
>> Millard
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 11:15 AM
>> Subject: Re: Linked Data available
>>
>>
>> Umm ,,, in
>> http://nsf.rkbexplorer.com/data/person-6092a2a72319fc9437583fb2d04733ea I
>> get
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Request for
>> http://nsf.rkbexplorer.com/data/person-6092a2a72319fc9437583fb2d04733eaabout
>>
>>
>> under the hood
>> Label Request for
>> http://nsf.rkbexplorer.com/data/person-6092a2a72319fc9437583fb2d04733ea
>> Status 200
>> StatusText OK
>> Accept-ranges bytes
>> Connection close
>> Content-length 2005
>> Content type text/xml
>> Date Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:27:37 GMT
>> Etag "7785ba-7d5-43e4bd0f48e00"
>> Last-modified Wed, 07 Nov 2007 00:27:36 GMT Server Apache/2.0.52 (Red
>> Hat)
>> Handler opt off expandfetchSourceFetcher.XMLHandler
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Something funny about the XML:  Line 2: doctype broken.  Shoud not be a
>> doctype.
>>
>>
>>
>> <?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
>> <!DOCTYPE rdf:RDF [
>>        <!ENTITY rdf 'http://www.w3.org/1999/02/22-rdf-syntax-ns#'>
>>        <!ENTITY rdfs 'http://www.w3.org/2000/01/rdf-schema#'>
>>        <!ENTITY owl 'http://www.w3.org/2002/07/owl#'>
>>        <!ENTITY akt 'http://www.aktors.org/ontology/portal#'>
>>        <!ENTITY akts 'http://www.aktors.org/ontology/support#'>
>>        <!ENTITY extn 'http://www.aktors.org/ontology/extension#'>
>>        <!ENTITY wiki 'http://resist.ecs.soton.ac.uk/wiki/'>
>>        <!ENTITY resist
>> 'http://resist.ecs.soton.ac.uk/ontologies/resist#'>
>>        <!ENTITY resex
>> 'http://resist.ecs.soton.ac.uk/ontologies/resilience-mechanisms#'>
>>        <!ENTITY courseware
>> 'http://www.resist-noe.org/ontology/courseware#'>
>>        <!ENTITY dc 'http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/'>
>>        <!ENTITY dct 'http://purl.org/dc/terms/'>
>> ]>
>> <rdf:RDF
>>        xmlns:rdf="&rdf;"
>>        xmlns:rdfs="&rdfs;"
>>        xmlns:owl="&owl;"
>>        xmlns:akt="&akt;"
>>        xmlns:akts="&akts;"
>>        xmlns:extn="&extn;"
>>        xmlns:wiki="&wiki;"
>>        xmlns:resist="&resist;"
>>        xmlns:resex="&resex;"
>>        xmlns:courseware="&courseware;"
>>        xmlns:dc="&dc;"
>>        xmlns:dct="&dct;"
>>        >
>>        <owl:Ontology rdf:about="">
>>
>>
>>
>> [....]
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 

-- 

Ivan Herman, W3C Semantic Web Activity Lead
Home: http://www.w3.org/People/Ivan/
PGP Key: http://www.ivan-herman.net/pgpkey.html
FOAF: http://www.ivan-herman.net/foaf.rdf