- From: <tim.glover@bt.com>
- Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:14:18 -0000
- To: <michael.hausenblas@joanneum.at>
- Cc: <semantic-web@w3.org>
Michael,
Great quiz! I would like to insert a third question - Q IIa: What does
it mean? As one on the outer fringes on this community my answers are:
QI. What is it? It is a string of characters.
QIIa. What does it mean? It depends on the context. In a software
context this string of letters could represent a URI, a password, an
encrypted sentence, a long integer... In the context of *semantic web
software* its meaning is given by the specs, and I guess Richards answer
is authoritative. But it sounds as if there are several software specs
that could be applied - I think your option 5 comes closest.
Q II. What does it identify? Only a human interpreter can tell you. And
the law that says it can only possibly refer to one thing is mad and
unenforceable.
Tim.
Q.I: What is http://sw-app.org/mic.xhtml#i?
1. A URI
2. A URL
3. A foaf:Person
4. Michael Hausenblas
6. An XHTML fragment
Q.II: What does http://sw-app.org/mic.xhtml#i identfiy?
1. A foaf:Person
2. Michael Hausenblas
4. An XHTML fragment
5. Depends on who looks at it: A Web UA 'sees' a XHTML fragment,
a SW agent a thing of type foaf:Person 6. Dunno until I do an HTTP
GET
Cheers,
Michael
----------------------------------------------------------
Michael Hausenblas, MSc.
Institute of Information Systems & Information Management JOANNEUM
RESEARCH Forschungsgesellschaft mbH Steyrergasse 17, A-8010 Graz,
AUSTRIA
----------------------------------------------------------
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Cyganiak [mailto:richard@cyganiak.de]
> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 5:26 PM
> To: Hausenblas, Michael
> Cc: Leo Sauermann; semantic-web@w3.org; Leo Sauermann
> Subject: Re: Cool URIs, the Semantic Web and Everything
>
> Michael,
>
> On 21 Dec 2007, at 08:23, Hausenblas, Michael wrote:
> > In Cool URIs you are
> > referring to a certain
> > setup ('deployment scenarios in which the RDF data and the
> HTML data
> > is served separately').
> > Also the figure right before section 3.1 suggests that there is an
> > explicit RDF document and an HTML document, each with a
> distinct URL.
> > As you know, this is not the case with RDFa.
>
> Would changing the sentence
>
> "In those cases [RDFa, microformats and GRDDL] the RDF data is
> extracted from the returned HTML document."
>
> to
>
> "In those cases, the RDF data is extracted from the HTML document and
> no separate RDF document is needed."
>
> address your complaint?
>
> The rest of the document's narrative is consistent with use of RDFa,
> as far as I can tell.
>
> Best,
> Richard
>
>
> >
> >
> > So, that is were my confusion stems from. I know that due to time
> > constraints you decided that this is the way it is. It
> would still be
> > nice to learn why the figure right before section 3.1
> (sorry, no label
> > available) 'shows the desired relationships between a
> resource and its
> > describing documents'.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Michael
> >
> > [1]
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2007Dec/0121.html
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > Michael Hausenblas, MSc.
> > Institute of Information Systems & Information Management JOANNEUM
> > RESEARCH Forschungsgesellschaft mbH
> >
> > http://www.joanneum.at/iis/
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Leo Sauermann [mailto:sauermann@dfki.uni-kl.de]
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 12:36 PM
> >> To: Hausenblas, Michael
> >> Cc: semantic-web@w3.org; Leo Sauermann
> >> Subject: Re: Cool URIs, the Semantic Web and Everything
> >>
> >> Hausenblas, Michael schrieb:
> >>
> >> Leo,
> >>
> >> Thanks for your explanation. I remain not totally convinced :)
> >>
> >>
> >> good, then give a practical example (using concrete RDFa
> code) where
> >> you think some work needs to be done and provide a
> suggestion how to
> >> solve it. That you are not convinced may be caused by
> various reasons
> >> we don't know about, shine light on them.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> So, *if* we agree on what you said, IMHO we should
> >> reconsider the following paragraph in 'Cool URIs' [1]:
> >>
> >> 'The solutions described in the following apply to deployment
> >> scenarios
> >> in which the RDF data and the HTML data is served
> separately, such
> >> as a
> >> standalone RDF/XML document
> >> along with an HTML document. The metadata can also be
> embedded in
> >> HTML,
> >> using technologies such as
> >> RDFa [RDFa Primer], microformats and other documents to
> which the
> >> GRDDL
> >> [GRDDL] mechanisms can be applied.
> >> In those cases the RDF data is extracted from the returned HTML
> >> document.'
> >>
> >>
> >> I see no reason for changes until you exactly specify where this
> >> paragraph contradicts http-range-14 or other TAG
> resolutions or W3C
> >> recommendations.
> >>
> >> the point is that RDF/XML, N3, RDFa and GRDDL are
> mimetypes encoding
> >> RDF triples while URIs are something used inside these RDF
> triples,
> >> so at the beginning both are completly different and do not affect
> >> each other.
> >>
> >> "Cool uris" is about URIs and not about RDF serialization.
> >>
> >> best
> >> Leo
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Still unsure if this is just the tip of the iceberg ...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Michael
> >>
> >> [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/2007/WD-cooluris-20071217/#solutions
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------
> >> Michael Hausenblas, MSc.
> >> Institute of Information Systems & Information Management
> >> JOANNEUM RESEARCH Forschungsgesellschaft mbH
> >>
> >> http://www.joanneum.at/iis/
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Leo Sauermann [mailto:sauermann@dfki.uni-kl.de]
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 3:43 AM
> >> To: Hausenblas, Michael
> >> Cc: semantic-web@w3.org; Leo Sauermann
> >> Subject: Re: Cool URIs, the Semantic Web and Everything
> >>
> >> Hi Michael, RDFa people,
> >>
> >> The question is if httpRange-14 [2] is valid in
> the case of
> >> XHTML+RDFa.
> >>
> >> The answer is that httpRange-14 is to
> distinguish URIs for
> >> information
> >> resources ("web documents") from real-world
> objects (the person
> >> "Alice"). As such, it is a recommendation on URIs.
> >>
> >> RDFa is an encoding of RDF, and typically an
> RDFa document has two
> >> relations to URIs:
> >> a) the URI of the RDFa document (=the
> information resource where I
> >> can
> >> download the RDFa document)
> >> b) the URIs used as subjects, predicates,
> objects inside RDF
> >> statements
> >> written inside RDFa documents
> >>
> >> a) is usually a http-200 uri, and a) is an
> information resource (=
> >> a
> >> document).
> >> In the rdf statemetns written inside A, you
> would use both URIs
> >> for
> >> real-world objects and information resources.
> >> example (I don't know rdfa syntax by heart
> now, assume this is
> >> rdfa):
> >>
> >> document at www.example.com/homepage/aboutAlice
> >> <html>
> >> <p
> >> rdf:about="http://www.example.com/identifiers/alice#this"
> >> <http://www.example.com/identifiers/alice#this> >
> >> rdf:type foaf:Person.
> >> </p>
> >> <p
> >> rdf:about="http://www.example.com/moreidentifiersusing303/bob"
> >> <http://www.example.com/moreidentifiersusing303/bob> >
> >> rdf:type foaf:Person
> >> </p>
> >> </html>
> >>
> >> assuming this would be valid RDFa, the URI
> .../aboutAlice is a
> >> http-return-200 informaiton resource
> >> .../alice#this is a real-world object as it is
> not a document (as I
> >> understand timbl on that)
> >> ...303/bob is not intuitively distinguishable -
> if you ignore the
> >> rdf:type relation you don't know what it is. So
> for this uri you do
> >> a
> >> HTTP get and the server would return a 303
> redirect as described in
> >> "cool uris".
> >> once oyu did the 303, you knowthat ....303/bob
> is a real world
> >> object.
> >>
> >> so RDFa and 303'/httprange14 are
> >> recommendations caring about
> >> different
> >> angles, 303 is only concerned about URIs, RDFa
> about an RDF
> >> serialization. Technically they don't interfere.
> >>
> >> If I would use RDFa much and would like cool
> uris, I would go for
> >> #-uris, they are simple to use and easy to
> embed in RDFa.
> >> but as shown above, you can use any URI you
> want inside rdfa.
> >>
> >> best
> >> Leo
> >>
> >>
> >> Hausenblas, Michael schrieb:
> >>
> >>
> >> ===
> >> Disclaimer: Michael, with his
> >> RDFa-Task-Force-member hat off ;)
> >> ===
> >>
> >> As I gathered "Cool URIs for the Semantic Web"
is a Working
> >>
> >>
> >> Draft, now.
> >>
> >>
> >> Congrats to Leo and his team, great job!
> >>
> >> The following might sound like a naive
> question - and I might
> >> have missed something :) - but: Is TAG
> finding httpRange-14 [2]
> >> equally valid in the case of XHTML+RDFa?
> >>
> >> I've put together some initial thoughts
> at the ESWiki [3]
> >> - any comments welcome!
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> Michael
> >>
> >> [1]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-swd-wg/2007Dec/0103.html
> >>
> >>
> >> [2]
> >> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/issues.html#httpRange-14
> >> [3] http://esw.w3.org/topic/RDFa_vs_RDFXML
> >>
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------
> >> Michael Hausenblas, MSc.
> >> Institute of Information Systems &
> Information Management
> >> JOANNEUM RESEARCH Forschungsgesellschaft mbH
> >> Steyrergasse 17, A-8010 Graz, AUSTRIA
> >>
> >> <office>
> >> phone: +43-316-876-1193 (fax:-1191)
> >> e-mail: michael.hausenblas@joanneum.at
> >> web: http://www.joanneum.at/iis/
> >>
> >> <private>
> >> mobile: +43-660-7621761
> >> web: http://www.sw-app.org/
> >>
> >> ----------------------------------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
Received on Monday, 31 December 2007 12:14:39 UTC