- From: Norm Tovey-Walsh <norm@saxonica.com>
- Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2025 17:26:29 +0000
- To: public-xslt-40@w3.org
Hi folks,
Here are the minutes from today’s meeting:
https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html
QT4 CG Meeting 107 Minutes 2025-01-28
[1]Meeting index / [2]QT4CG.org / [3]Dashboard / [4]GH Issues / [5]GH
Pull Requests
Table of Contents
* [6]Draft Minutes
* [7]Summary of new and continuing actions [0/11]
* [8]1. Administrivia
+ [9]1.1. Roll call [10/13]
+ [10]1.2. Accept the agenda
o [11]1.2.1. Status so far...
+ [12]1.3. Approve minutes of the previous meeting
+ [13]1.4. Next meeting
+ [14]1.5. Review of open action items [2/7]
+ [15]1.6. Review of open pull requests and issues
o [16]1.6.1. Blocked
o [17]1.6.2. Merge without discussion
o [18]1.6.3. Close without action
o [19]1.6.4. Substantive PRs
* [20]2. Technical agenda
+ [21]2.1. PR #1708: 1485 Add xsl:record-type declaration
+ [22]2.2. PR #1722: 1717 define focus functions using pipeline
operator
+ [23]2.3. PR #1727: 1725 Define more detailed rules for
duplicates in maps
+ [24]2.4. Path to completion?
* [25]3. Any other business
* [26]4. Adjourned
Draft Minutes
Summary of new and continuing actions [0/11]
* [ ] QT4CG-082-02: DN to work with MK to come to agreement on the
fn:ranks proposal
* [ ] QT4CG-088-04: [Someone] needs to update the processing model
diagram needs vis-a-vis the static typing feature
* [ ] QT4CG-097-02: MK to make the XSD schema component references
into links to XSD
* [ ] QT4CG-103-01: MK to add an example of showing all the
properties for an untyped node.
* [ ] QT4CG-106-01: NW to remove the dead wood from the XSLT build
(SVG diagrams)
* [ ] QT4CG-107-01: MK to add the return type to the paragraph on
focus functions
* [ ] QT4CG-107-02: MK to add the options to all the functions.
* [ ] QT4CG-107-03: MK to change the spec so that the first item is
always selected.
* [ ] QT4CG-107-04: MK to review CG's comment to align fn:map-merge
by removing the reference to random number generator and fixing a
typo.
* [ ] QT4CG-107-05: JLO and DN to consider a proposal for system
defined records.
* [ ] QT4CG-107-06: NW to integrate DN's expandable ToC into the
build.
1. Administrivia
1.1. Roll call [10/13]
Regrets: SF.
* [X] David J Birnbaum (DB)
* [ ] Reece Dunn (RD)
* [ ] Sasha Firsov (SF)
* [X] Christian Gr¸n (CG)
* [X] Joel Kalvesmaki (JK) [:05-]
* [X] Michael Kay (MK)
* [X] Juri Leino (JLO)
* [X] John Lumley (JWL)
* [X] Dimitre Novatchev (DN)
* [X] Wendell Piez (WP)
* [X] Ed Porter (EP)
* [ ] Bethan Tovey-Walsh (BTW)
* [X] Norm Tovey-Walsh (NW). Scribe. Chair.
1.2. Accept the agenda
Proposal: Accept [27]the agenda.
Accepted.
1.2.1. Status so far...
These charts have been adjusted so they reflect the preceding six
months of work.
issues-open-2025-01-28.png
Figure 1: "Burn down" chart on open issues
issues-by-spec-2025-01-28.png
Figure 2: Open issues by specification
issues-by-type-2025-01-28.png
Figure 3: Open issues by type
1.3. Approve minutes of the previous meeting
Proposal: Accept [28]the minutes of the previous meeting.
Accepted.
1.4. Next meeting
This next meeting is planned for 4 February 2025.
MK, JWL (possible) gives regrets. CG gives regrets for 11 and 18
February.
1.5. Review of open action items [2/7]
(Items marked [X] are believed to have been closed via email before
this agenda was posted.)
* [ ] QT4CG-082-02: DN to work with MK to come to agreement on the
fn:ranks proposal
* [ ] QT4CG-088-04: [Someone] needs to update the processing model
diagram needs vis-a-vis the static typing feature
* [ ] QT4CG-097-02: MK to make the XSD schema component references
into links to XSD
* [ ] QT4CG-103-01: MK to add an example of showing all the
properties for an untyped node.
* [ ] QT4CG-106-01: NW to remove the dead wood from the XSLT build
(SVG diagrams)
* [X] QT4CG-106-02: MK to apply the typos changes and then merge this
PR #1703.
* [X] QT4CG-106-03: MK to write the XPath that puts map keys in
record order as an example.
1.6. Review of open pull requests and issues
1.6.1. Blocked
The following PRs are open but have merge conflicts or comments which
suggest they aren't ready for action.
* PR [29]#1587: 557 Add fn:binary-resource
* PR [30]#1296: 982 Rewrite of scan-left and scan-right
* PR [31]#1283: 77b Update expressions
* PR [32]#1062: 150bis revised proposal for fn:ranks
* PR [33]#1227: 150 PR resubmission for fn ranks
1.6.2. Merge without discussion
The following PRs are editorial, small, or otherwise appeared to be
uncontroversial when the agenda was prepared. The chairs propose that
these can be merged without discussion. If you think discussion is
necessary, please say so.
* PR [34]#1732: 1720 grammar simplification
* PR [35]#1731: 1719 drop shared spec from build
* PR [36]#1728: Fix CSS for production tables
Proposed: merge without discussion.
Accepted.
1.6.3. Close without action
It has been proposed that the following issues be closed without
action. If you think discussion is necessary, please say so.
* Issue [37]#1252: Add a new function `fn:html-doc`
* Issue [38]#1124: Formatting XPath/XQuery: Preferences, Conventions
* Issue [39]#1069: fn:ucd
* Issue [40]#998: regular expression addition - lookbehind assertions
and lookahead assertions
* Issue [41]#981: Identify optional arguments in callback functions
* Issue [42]#885: fn:uuid
* Issue [43]#747: QName literals
* Issue [44]#76: non-deterministic time
Proposed: close without further action.
* DB: Why is 998 being closed?
* CG: I proposed to close it; it's been 6 months without any PR.
* DB: There was a similar proposal for \b for the edge of a token.
+ The definition of "word" is language dependent but whitespace
bounded tokens.
* MK: This is related to the meta discussion for later today. We have
to decide how to discard all the good ideas that no one has the
energy to write.
+ We could label it as "closed for want of a volunteer"
Accepted.
* JLO: I wanted to talk about #981. I think we should make #1514
required.
* NW: There's been some discussion of positional arguments since the
agenda went out. Let's add that later on the agenda.
Consensus: okay.
1.6.4. Substantive PRs
The following substantive PRs were open when this agenda was prepared.
* PR [45]#1708: 1485 Add xsl:record-type declaration
* PR [46]#1722: 1717 define focus functions using pipeline operator
* PR [47]#1727: 1725 Define more detailed rules for duplicates in
maps
2. Technical agenda
2.1. PR #1708: 1485 Add xsl:record-type declaration
See PR [48]#1708
MK introduces the PR which does include a few small changes to XPath.
* MK: First try was, can we do this instead of named item types. I
was persuaded to provide both.
MK walks through the XSLT spec changes.
* MK: The named item type section is largely rewritten but not
changed in substance.
+ ... Named record types is the new feature.
+ ... There's a detailed explanation of how a record type is
equivalent to an item type and a function.
Some discussion of packages and visibility.
* JWL: When you have a record type with optional fields, does that
imply that the constructor function is variadic?
* MK: Yes. The defaults become defaults in the function.
* JWL: They're not overridable outside a package, so there's nothing
like xsl:original-reference.
* MK: Right. Overriding a type would have such unpredicatable
consequences, we probably don't want to consider it.
* JWL: If I do a function override, from a package where I can refer
to the original, do I still keep the same type?
* MK: The overriding function has to have a "compatible" type
signature.
Proposal: Accept this PR.
Accept this PR.
2.2. PR #1722: 1717 define focus functions using pipeline operator
See PR [49]#1722
* MK: This is very straightforward. It just changes how we define
focus functions.
+ ... It just adds a paragraph establishing the relationship
between focus functions and the focus setting operator.
* CG: Was wondering if we should add the return type.
* MK: Yes.
ACTION QT4CG-107-01: MK to add the return type to the paragraph on
focus functions
Proposal: Accept this PR.
Accept this PR. MK to merge after completing the action.
2.3. PR #1727: 1725 Define more detailed rules for duplicates in maps
See PR [50]#1727
* MK: When implementing this and writing tests, I discovered we
hadn't been clear enough about duplicates in a few places.
+ ... In fn:map-build, we clarify how duplicates are handled.
+ ... In fn:map-merge, we do the same thing.
o ... But there is some sublty here.
+ ... In fn:map-of-pairs, we also do the same thing.
* CG: I like to have the option combine for map-merge as well. What
about duplicates on map-build?
* MK: I have no objection. It gives you two ways to do the same thing
that makes me a little uneasy. Should we add the options to all the
functions?
ACTION QT4CG-107-02: MK to add the options to all the functions.
* NW: If we don't, users will wonder why?
* MK: Yes, okay.
* JLO: Why is it implementation defined which key is used when there
are duplicates?
* MK: That's a valid point. You could always just the first one.
ACTION QT4CG-107-03: MK to change the spec so that the first item is
always selected.
* CG: There's a use of random in map:merge and there's a typo.
ACTION QT4CG-107-04: MK to review CG's comment to align fn:map-merge by
removing the reference to random number generator and fixing a typo.
Proposal: Accept this PR.
Accept this PR.
2.4. Path to completion?
At some point in the life of a working group, the consensus shifts from
"there's more to do" to "we need to finish". I think the QT4CG is
starting to feel that tension.
Discuss.
* MK: What are we doing about external review?
* NW: I thnk we shold
* MK: What about pointing
* NW: Yes, a fixed URI
* MK: We need to revisit the question of what we need to finish to
make the publication coherent, as distinct from what we'd like to
do. We should focus on resolving the half baked ideas.
Some discussion. Revisit open issues? How to categorize?
* NW: I'll make time on the agenda to categorize (or review, as
appropriate) issues.
* JWL: My interest in XSLT is that we could go through the big
things, which are finished, which need a little work, which should
be dropped.
+ ... I think we could go through it on big group bits.
+ ... Maybe be in a clearer position by Easter?
* NW: Let's consider doing this during the two weeks that CG will be
away (with his approval).
* DN: I really want to publish a PR about generators, kollections,
and ... but I'm blocked because I don't know if we have the
capability to have system defined records. That's not been solved
at all.
* NW: What do you mean by system defined records?
* MK: Try smaller pieces, do the system defined records first.
* DN: When I first confronted by this difficulty, I raised an issue.
But that has been closed without action.
Some discussion of how complicated it is to make the PR.
* JLO: Somewhat related to what DN said. Record types that are known
to the system is something I'm keen about with respect to options.
I'd like users to be able to find out what is possible. And it
would be good to be able to specify a type for them.
+ ... We should have a list of them and what they're types are.
Maybe I could work with DN on that part.
ACTION QT4CG-107-05: JLO and DN to consider a proposal for system
defined records.
3. Any other business
* DN: Demonstrates his work on the expandable ToC.
General agreement that we should do this.
* DB: That looks nice. I wonder if there might be use for an
expand-all and collapse-all buttons.
ACTION QT4CG-107-06: NW to integrate DN's expandable ToC into the
build.
4. Adjourned
References
1. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/
2. https://qt4cg.org/
3. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard
4. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues
5. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/pulls
6. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#minutes
7. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#new-actions
8. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#administrivia
9. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#roll-call
10. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#agenda
11. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#so-far
12. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#approve-minutes
13. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#next-meeting
14. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#open-actions
15. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#open-pull-requests
16. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#blocked
17. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#merge-without-discussion
18. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#close-without-action
19. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#substantive
20. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#technical-agenda
21. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#pr-1708
22. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#pr-1722
23. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#pr-1727
24. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#turningtheship
25. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#any-other-business
26. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-28.html#adjourned
27. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/agenda/2025/01-28.html
28. https://qt4cg.org/meeting/minutes/2025/01-21.html
29. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1587
30. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1296
31. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1283
32. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1062
33. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1227
34. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1732
35. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1731
36. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1728
37. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/1252
38. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/1124
39. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/1069
40. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/998
41. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/981
42. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/885
43. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/747
44. https://github.com/qt4cg/qtspecs/issues/76
45. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1708
46. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1722
47. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1727
48. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1708
49. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1722
50. https://qt4cg.org/dashboard/#pr-1727
Be seeing you,
norm
--
Norm Tovey-Walsh
Saxonica
Received on Tuesday, 28 January 2025 17:26:36 UTC