- From: C. M. Sperberg-McQueen <cmsmcq@blackmesatech.com>
- Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2016 12:05:35 -0700
- To: Andrew Coleman <andrew_coleman@uk.ibm.com>
- Cc: "C. M. Sperberg-McQueen" <cmsmcq@blackmesatech.com>, public-xsl-query@w3.org
On Feb 5, 2016, at 5:51 AM, Andrew Coleman wrote:
> DRAFT XML Query/XSL WG Joint Teleconference #633 Agenda 2016-02-09
>
Minutes from XML Query/XSL WG Joint Teleconference #633, 2016-02-09
> This week, I'd like us to work on the following items:
> J3.0.1
> J4.2 (F&O)
> J4.4 (XPath)
> J4.6 (Test Suite)
> Key:
> J = Joint Query/XSLT meeting;
> Q = Query-only meeting
> Teleconference connection details
> ---------------------------------
> (Member only)
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-xsl-query/2015Sep/0014.html
> SUMMARY OF DECISIONS
> ====================
RESOLVED: resolve bug 29435 (JSON Serialization of numerics) by
modifying the JSON serialization method: when discussing numbers, say
"Implementations MAY serialize the value as any lexical representation
of that xs:double value" or words to that effect.
> NEW ACTION ITEMS
> ================
ACTION A-633-01: Andy Cole to discuss the possible obsoleting of the
3.0 specs with Liam Quin.
ACTION A-633-02: Andy Coleman to change the serialization spec to say
that in the JSON serialization method, "Implementations MAY serialize
the value of a number using any lexical representation of the
xs:double value" or words to that effect. This should resolve bug
29435 (JSON Serialization of numerics).
ACTION A-633-03: Jonathan Robie to open a new bug on the
classification of functions and terminology for that classification.
ACTION A-633-04: Jonathan Robie to reword section 3.1.5.1 Evaluating
Static and Dynamic Function Calls of XQuery (and the corresponding
function of XPath) to address Abel Braaksma's observations that (a)
5.b.iv is ill-worded since not every nonlocal variable binding will
necessarily be supplied as an actual parameter, and (b) the parameter
bindings supplied by the partial application should not be commingled
forever with the nonlocal variable bindings.
> ===================================================
> Joint XML Query Working Group and XSL Working Group
> ===================================================
> J1. Administrative Items
> J1.1 Selection of secretary(s)
Michael Sperberg-McQueen took these minutes.
> Most recent secretaries (least-recent participants first):
> ----------------------------------------------------------
> (This list identifies the most recent three occasions when each
> participant acted as Secretary for the Task Force. The person whose
> name is at the top of the list should plan to take the minutes at the
> meeting identified by this agenda; if that person is unavailable, then
> the job will fall to the next person on the list, etc.
> Mike Kay - 2015-11-10, 2015-07-15, 2015-04-14
> Michael Dyck - 2015-11-17, 2015-09-01, 2015-03-31
> Josh Spiegel - 2015-12-01, 2015-09-08, 2015-03-24
> Tim Mills - 2015-12-08, 2015-09-15, 2015-04-21
> Norm Walsh - 2015-12-15, 2015-09-22, 2015-05-05
> Jonathan Robie - 2016-01-05, 2015-09-29, 2015-05-12
> John Snelson - 2015-01-12, 2015-07-16, 2015-06-02
> Liam Quin - 2016-01-19, 2015-10-06, 2015-06-16
> Adam Retter - 2015-01-26, 2015-10-20, 2015-04-21
> O'Neil Delpratt - 2016-02-02, 2015-10-27, 2015-06-23
> Michael Sprbrg-McQn - 2016-02-09, 2015-10-03, 2015-06-09
> J1.2 Call the Roll -- NOT DONE DURING TELECONFERENCE
> Note to secretary: During the meeting, take a note of the Webex
> participants, then list in the minutes those present and those who sent
> regrets. All others will be presumed to have been absent without regrets.
> XML Query WG membership list:
> http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=18797&order=org
> XSL WG membership list:
> http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=19552&order=org
Present
Abel Braaksma (W3C Invited Experts)
Andrew Coleman (IBM Corporation)
O'Neil Delpratt (W3C Invited Experts)
Michael Dyck (W3C Invited Experts)
Michael Kay (W3C Invited Experts)
Jonathan Robie (EMC Corporation)
Michael Sperberg-McQueen (W3C Invited Experts)
Josh Spiegel (Oracle Corporation)
> Regrets:
Tim Mills (Clinical and Biomedical Computing Ltd)
Liam Quin (W3C Staff)
> J1.3 Approval of agenda
> J1.3.1 Additions, deletions, or corrections?
No changes were made to the agenda; AC has noticed a few new bugs,
which we may get to.
> J1.4 Review of recent minutes and administrative items
> J1.4.1 Minutes of meeting #632 (O'Neil)
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xsl-query/2016Feb/0001.html
The minutes posted were accepted as a true record of the meeting.
> J1.5 Review of action items
> NOTE: Please be prepared to respond quickly on your action items!
> J1.5.1 Outstanding action items
> Action A-628-01: Liam to discuss the status of XQuery Update 3.0 at XML
> Prague.
> Status: Pending; ETA 2016-02-13
> ACTION A-629-02: Jonathan Robie to apply the clarification from the
> comment 12 of bug 29346 to the spec.
> Status: Pending; ETA 2016-02-02
ETA 2016-03-01
> ACTION A-629-03: Abel to write test cases for the resolution to bug 29346.
> Status: Pending; ETA 2016-02-02; Awaiting completion of A-629-02
Not yet late.
> ACTION A-629-04: Jonathan Robie to fix bug 29362 by referring to the
> definition of op:same-key in F&O
> Status: Pending; ETA 2016-02-02
ETA 2016-03-01
> ACTION A-630-01: Mike Kay to propose a resolution on 29373 Missing error
> code
> when fn:serialize receives a QName method in no namespace
> Status: Pending; ETA 2016-02-16
ETA 2016-03-01
> ACTION A-630-02: O'Neil to remove reporting of the features that aren't in
> 3.1
> (static typing, namespace axis) and tests that are not for 3.1
> (e.g. 3.0 or XPath)
> Status: Pending; ETA 2016-02-16
ETA 2016-03-01
> ACTION A-630-06: jonathan to check the wordin to make validate {} an error
> [bug 29370]g
> Status: Pending; ETA 2016-02-02
ETA 2016-03-01
> ACTION A-631-02: Jonathan Robie to make the changes in XPath 3.1 as
> suggested by Michael Dyck in Bug 29382
> Status: Pending; ETA not specified.
ETA 2016-03-01
> ACTION A-632-02: Mike Kay to make the change of adding cross reference to
> section 5.3.5 in relation to bug 29406
> Status: Pending; ETA not specified.
Completed:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xsl-query/2016Feb/0015.html
> ACTION A-632-03: Mike to add a clarification text and example to bug 29415
> Status: Pending; ETA not specified.
Pending.
> ACTION A-632-04: Jonathan to refine wording in section 3.1.5.1Evaluating
> Static and Dynamic Function Calls. Based on the following points: 1.
> provide formal definitions for "host language function",
> "implementation-defined function", link to "external function”. 2. make
> sure that inline functions and declared functions are well defined as
> "functions that have bodies”. 3. Change ...F's implementation is a... to
> ..F is a…
> 3a. typo: s/an/a in "is an partially applied function,”
> Status: Pending; ETA not specified.
Completed:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xsl-query/2016Feb/0008.html
> ACTION A-632-05: Jonathan to propose a solution to bug 29414
> Status: Pending; ETA not specified.
Completed:
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xsl-query/2016Feb/0009.html
> ACTION A-632-06: O’Neil to make dependency on XSD 1.0 on the test cases.
> Update the bug issue 29404
> Status: Pending; ETA not specified.
Overtaken by events (reassigned as F and O bug)
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xsl-query/2016Feb/0007.html
> J1.5.2 Completed action items
> ACTION A-631-01: Jonathan Robie to propose a reformulation of XPath 3.1
> section 3.1.5.1, bullet-points 2 and 5
> Status: Closed; Discussed in last telecon
> ACTION A-632-01: Andy to contact Jim to make change to the hierarchy
> diagrams in both XDM and F+O. See bug 29403
> Status: Closed; See
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xsl-query/2016Feb/0002.html
> J1.6 Update on related activities
> J1.6.1 Update on XSLT WG activities (Sharon, MikeK)
MK reported that the XSLT WG has been discussing testing and exit
criteria. The Prague meeting will probably be devoted mostly to
making tests.
> J1.6.2 Update on EXPath/EXQuery CG activities (Mike)
No report.
> J1.7 Future Meetings
> J1.7.1 QT Meeting Schedule
> [V44] Joint XML Query/XSL WG meeting schedule
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-xsl-query/2015Dec/0000.html
> ** Meetings cancelled on 2016-02-16 and 2016-02-23 **
16 February would clash with XSLT WG meeting; on 23 February the chair
is unavailable.
> J1.7.2 Future F2F Meetings
> J1.7.2.1 Other future F2F meetings
> None scheduled.
Nothing to be discussed here.
> J2. Documents For Review
> (none)
> J3. Maintenance Issues
> J3.0 The XML Query WG and XSLT WG do not intend to maintains specs
> earlier than the 3.0 suite of documents; when the 3.1 suite reaches
> Recommendation, maintenance of the 3.0 documents will be terminated.
> This agenda item is reserved for reporting errors and other problems
> reported against the 3.0 (later, 3.1) suite of specifications.
> J3.0.1 Concerns raised by the XSLT working group in regards to potential
> completion delays of XSLT 3.0 if XPath 3.0 is made obsoleted by 3.1
> Status: Pending the outcome of Abel's review of 3.0 bugs/errata.
> Any change to the status of the 3.0 specs requires explicit XSL WG
> consultation.
AB not yet having arrived, MK reported that he didn't know of any
progress on that review of bugs and errata.
The XSLT spec is currently set up so that it can be used either with
XPath 3.0 or with 3.1.
The specific question is about dates. And what does it mean to say
that something has become obsolete? Can we really decide that?
AC suggested that it basically means the document won't be maintained.
MK noted that the same problem arises with XSD 1.0 (there are bugs in
1.0 that have not formally been fixed, where one must infer the
correct disposition by the corresponding changes in 1.1), but people
seem to muddle through.
MSM suggested that one potential problem with formally declaring 3.0
obsolete is that it would cause problems for the progression of XSLT
3.0, because of the normative dependency. It might be better to delay
any explicit declaration that XPath 3.0 will not be maintained until
after XSLT 3.0 has been finished.
AC concluded that he would discuss the issue with Liam Quin and decide
whether it's important to obsolete the old specs when the new ones
progress.
ACTION A-633-01: Andy Cole to discuss the possible obsoleting of the
3.0 specs with Liam Quin.
> J3.1 Bugzilla Bugs filed against the 3.0 suite of joint XML Query WG and
> XSLT WG documents
> (none)
> J4. Active Specification Development
> ** Note: Full Text 3.1 has been removed from the WG agenda.
> If, in the future, there is sufficient interest (i.e. at least two
> independent participants to develop the spec and implementations),
> then this can be brought back on the agenda.
> J4.1 Data Model 3.1 (Norm)
> J4.1.0 Internal working draft
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xpath-datamodel-31/html/Overview.html
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xpath-datamodel-31/html/Overview-diff.html
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xpath-datamodel-31/src/changes.txt
> (none)
> J4.2 Functions and Operators 3.1 (Mike Kay)
> J4.2.0 Internal working draft
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xpath-functions-31/html/Overview.html
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xpath-functions-31/html/Overview-diff.html
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xpath-functions-31/src/changes.txt
> J4.2.1 Bug 29373 - Missing error code when fn:serialize receives a QName
> method in no namespace
> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29373
> Status: Pending completion of A-630-01
This is still outstanding.
> J4.3 Serialization 3.1 (Michael Sperberg-McQueen, Andy)
> J4.3.0 Internal working draft
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xslt-xquery-serialization-31/html/Overview.html
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xslt-xquery-serialization-31/html/Overview-diff.html
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xslt-xquery-serialization-31/src/changes.txt
> (none)
J4.3.1 Bug 29435 JSON Serialization of numerics
We discussed the case raised in the bug report: a JSON object which
reads in part
{"_id":5285039, ...}
is read in and then reserialized as
{"_id":5.285039E6, ...}
There was some sentiment that having the value of '_id' change from
decimal to scientific notation was unsettling, and a corresponding
inclination to change the serialization rules. MSM said that it should
not be unsettling: it's not the case that the value is being changed
from an integer to a floating point number, but that a floating point
number is being serialized in one or the other of two interchangeable
notations.
We can (a) do nothing, (b) require serialization in decimal form, or
(c) allow serialization in decimal form.
Some quick tests of Python and several Javascript implementations
suggested they reserialized this value in the original form (decimal
not scientific notation). MK observed that XPath 1.0 specifies that
whole numbers should be serialized in decimal not scientific notation,
but this rule is no longer in effect.
In the end, the majority of attendees favored allowing implementations
to serialize whole numbers in decimal notation instead of scientific
notation (option (c) above).
RESOLVED: resolve bug 29435 (JSON Serialization of numerics) by
modifying the JSON serialization method: when discussing numbers, say
"Implementations MAY serialize the value as any lexical representation
of that xs:double value" or words to that effect.
ACTION A-633-02: Andy Coleman to change the serialization spec to say
that in the JSON serialization method, "Implementations MAY serialize
the value of a number using any lexical representation of the
xs:double value" or words to that effect. This should resolve bug
29435 (JSON Serialization of numerics).
> J4.4 XPath 3.1 (Jonathan)
> J4.4.0 Internal working draft
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-31/html/xpath-31.html
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-31/html/xpath-31-diff.html
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-31/src/changes.txt
> J4.4.1 Bug 29277 - [XP31] Evaluating function calls does not mention
> evaluation of dynamic or static function calls that have no FunctionBody
> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29277
> Status: Pending completion of A-632-04
We discussed this at some length, but did not resolve it.
Several issues have arisen, among them: What is the relation between
external and implementation-defined functions?
Are implementation-defined functions (or: should they be?) a subset of
external functions?
Are implementation-defined functions (or: should they be?) a disjoint
set from external functions?
On a side note: the XPath spec should not be referring to external or
implementation-defined functions, only host-language functions. but
D.14 still uses the term 'external function'.
The discussion of the relation between implementation-defined and
external functions eventually led JR to attempt a new categorization
of functions:
- built-in functions (= those defined in F and O)
- user-defined functions (= ?)
- anonymous functions (= unbound function items?)
- external functions
We may wish to make a category for functions provided by an
implementation or via an implementation-defined API.
The term 'implementation-defined' might be used but there is some
uncertainty about whether it covers or should cover functions provided
via an implementation-defined API.
JR would like to open a new bug on the terminology of functions.
ACTION A-633-03: Jonathan Robie to open a new bug on the
classification of functions and terminology for that classification.
Michael Dyck thought that it would not be useful to attempt a
fine-grained classification of functions at this time; all we need, he
said, was the distinction made by XDM: there are functions for which
we have a function body, and there are functions for which we have
none. Partially applied functions are orthogonal to this distinction,
he said. Jonathan Robie argued that on the contrary, partially applied
functions are a third form of function; whatever the form taken by a
partially applied function, it won't resemble either the user-defined
functions for which we have a function body or the built-in functions
for which an XQuery implementation has some other representation
(e.g. a compiled binary). (MSM objected that partial application
MIGHT be implemented by returning a function body, so there is no
guarantee that a partially applied function will be different, but he
agreed with JR that it *could* be different.)
Leaving the classification and terminology behind, Abel Braaksma
reported an issue with the formulation of item 5.b.iv in
https://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-31/html/xpath-31-diff.html#id-eval-function-call
The set of non-local variable bindings, AB said, is not necessarily
equal to the set of parameters, so it's not the case that "each"
non-local binding is provided as the value of a parameter. There was
some confusion over what happens when a variable with a non-local
binding and a formal parameter have the same name (or perhaps only
over how to talk about it); this may require further discussion by
email.
We did not achieve complete clarity on the issue here, but the editor
professed to have been given enough guidance to reword the relevant
parts of the section.
ACTION A-633-04: Jonathan Robie to reword section 3.1.5.1 Evaluating
Static and Dynamic Function Calls of XQuery (and the corresponding
function of XPath) to address Abel Braaksma's observations that (a)
5.b.iv is ill-worded since not every nonlocal variable binding will
necessarily be supplied as an actual parameter, and (b) the parameter
bindings supplied by the partial application should not be commingled
forever with the nonlocal variable bindings.
At this point we were out of time and adjourned.
The chair reminded WG members that there are no meetings next week or
the week after; our next meeting is on 1 March 2016.
> J4.4.2 Bug 29414 - [XP30][XP31] The judgement subtype-itemtype(Ai, Bi) is
> incorrect for function(*)
> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29414
> Status: Pending completion of A-632-05
> J4.4.3 Bug 29419 - [XP31] edge case with negative integer literals
> (UnaryExpr) and limits for -9223372036854775808, which cannot be parsed
> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=29419
> Status: Ready to discuss
> J4.5 Grammar Test Applets (Michael Dyck)
> J4.5.1 Bugzilla Bug 13796, [Applet30] \u escaped characters in grammar
> applets
> http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13796
> Status: Pending
> J4.6 QT3 test suite (O'Neil)
> J4.6.1 Status report on test suite, harness, tools
> J4.6.2 Status of 3.1 tests results
> Status: Currently three implementers submitted results
> J4.6.3 - 13 ignored open bugs in defunct category "XML Query Test Suite",
> should these be moved / closed?
> See
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xsl-query/2016Jan/0037.html
> Status: Ready to discuss
> J5. Progression of Work
> J5.1 XSLT 3.0, XQuery 3.1, XQueryX 3.1, XPath 3.1, XDM 3.1, F&O 3.1,
> Serialization 3.1
> J5.1.1 Current status
> * In Candidate Recommendation; awaiting implementation reports
> J5.1.2 Dependencies inhibiting progression
> * Completion of test suite minimum-required-to-declare-victory
> * Sufficient implementation experience and reports thereof
> * Formal response to all comments, responses accepted by commenters
> * PR Transition Request and authorization, PR pub request
> * REC Transition Request and authorization, REC pub request
> J5.2 Update 3.0
> J5.2.1 Current Status
> * In Last Call Working Draft
> J5.2.2 Require owner of XQUF 3.0 Test Suite
> J5.2.3 Dependencies inhibiting progression
> * CR Transition Request and authorization, CR pub request
> * Completion of test suite minimum-required-to-declare-victory
> * Sufficient implementation experience and reports thereof
> * Formal response to all comments, responses accepted by commenters
> * PR Transition Request and authorization, PR pub request
> * REC Transition Request and authorization, REC pub request
> J6. Any other business
> J6.1 Consideration of future work
> J6.1.1 QT 3.2
> The WGs decided that we will finish the 3.1 documents presently under way,
> but undertake no new work. Maintenance work should be planned upon for a
> period of time after finishing the specifications.
> J6.1.2 FT 3.1
> Currently inadequate interest and resources
> J6.1.3 Update 3.1
> Currently inadequate interest and resources
> J7. Adjourn
> =======================
> XML Query Working Group
> =======================
> Q1. The XML Query WG does not intend to maintains specs earlier than the
> 3.0 suite of documents; when the 3.1 suite reaches Recommendation,
> maintenance of the 3.0 documents will be terminated.
> Q1.0 This agenda item is reserved for reporting errors and other
> problems reported against the 3.0 (later, 3.1) XML Query WG suite of
> specifications.
> Q1.1 Bugzilla Bugs filed against the 3.0 suite of XML Query WG documents
> (none)
> Q2. Active Specification Development
> Q2.1 XQuery Update Facility 3.0 (John)
> Q2.1.0 Internal working draft
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-update-30/html/Overview.html
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-update-30/html/Overview-diff.html
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-update-30/src/changes.txt
> * The WG needs to obtain implementation experience with this document.
> Q2.2 XQuery Update Facility 3.0 Requirements and Use Cases (Andy)
> See
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/requirements/xquery-update-30/html/Overview.html
> * The WGs need to be certain that this document is completed
> (red/yellow/green bullets on requirements, all the use cases intended to
> be published) and a decision made to advance it to WG Note.
> Q2.3 XQuery 3.1 (Jonathan)
> Q2.3.0 Internal working draft
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-31/html/xquery-31.html
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-31/html/xquery-31-diff.html
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xquery-31/src/changes.txt
> (none)
> Q2.4 XQueryX 3.1 (Josh)
> Q2.4.0 Internal working draft
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xqueryx-31/html/Overview.html
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xqueryx-31/html/Overview-diff.html
> http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/qtspecs/specifications/xqueryx-31/src/changes.txt
> (none)
> Q3. Test Suite Development
> Q3.1 Update Facility 3.0 Test Suite (????)
> * Need test suite developer/manager
> * Need tests
> Q4. Any other business
> Q5. Adjourn
<
--
****************************************************************
* C. M. Sperberg-McQueen, Black Mesa Technologies LLC
* http://www.blackmesatech.com
* http://cmsmcq.com/mib
* http://balisage.net
****************************************************************
Received on Tuesday, 9 February 2016 19:06:15 UTC