- From: Murray Maloney <murray@muzmo.com>
- Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2012 13:03:09 -0700
- To: public-xml-processing-model-wg@w3.org
- Cc: Murray Maloney <murray@muzmo.com>, Liam Quin <liam@w3.org>
I think that this is aimed mostly at Norm and Henry. I have Cc's Liam in case he has time and inclination to help me. As you know, I have not been active in W3C work for a long while. The HTML document that I sent to the mail list on Wednesday night demonstrates that I am unfamiliar with procedures. A have a number of questions which I am hoping one of you can help me with so that I won't have to trouble you in the future. 1) Having started with Alex 20060411 WD, should I be using the same IDs for everything, or are we forking a new document? That is, should this document continue to be known as http://www.w3.org/TR/xproc-requirements/ or should it become http://www.w3.org/TR/xproc-Vnext--requirements/ or some such? I can see logic behind either approach, and I guess I would prefer that we continue the same URI, but I am asking because I just don't know what proper procedure is. More generally, I guess I am asking someone to help me figure out the WD meta-data content. 2) How do I get set up to use content management system? I think that I heard that I need a key of some kind, and I may need to use SSH. Could somebody fill me in or point me at somebody who can? Please note that I alternate between my laptop and a Mac Mini, and would like to be able to work from either, if that matters. Murray Maloney murray@muzmo.com muzmo@me.com On 2012-03-21, at 6:55 AM, Norman Walsh wrote: > See http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/03/15-minutes > > [1]W3C > > - DRAFT - > > XML Processing Model WG > > Meeting 210, 15 Mar 2012 > > [2]Agenda > > See also: [3]IRC log > > Attendees > > Present > Norm, Alex, Murray, Henry > > Regrets > Cornelia, Mohamed > > Chair > Norm > > Scribe > Norm > > Contents > > * [4]Topics > > 1. [5]Accept this agenda? > 2. [6]Accept minutes from the previous meeting? > 3. [7]Next meeting: telcon, 22 March 2012 > 4. [8]Review of open action items > 5. [9]Review of last call processor profile comments. > 6. [10]Michael also makes a bunch of editorial suggestions. > 7. [11]Progress on requirements/use cases > 8. [12]Any other business? > > * [13]Summary of Action Items > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Accept this agenda? > > -> [14]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/03/15-agenda > > Accepted. > > Accept minutes from the previous meeting? > > -> [15]http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/02/23-minutes > > Accepted. > > Next meeting: telcon, 22 March 2012 > > No regrets heard. > > Review of open action items > > A-206-02: continued > > A-207-01: completed. there's only one comment > > A-207-02: continued > > A-209-01: continued, ETA 29 Mar > > Review of last call processor profile comments. > > Norm: We only have one, from cmsmcq. > > -> > [16]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-comments/2012Jan/0000.html > > Norm: Two substantive issues, standalone and validation. > ... What about standalone? > ... What are the cases? > ... No external decls, it's irrelevant > ... External decls, standalone=no, (the default) that's a validity > constraint > ... External decls, standalone=yes, then what we do is ok. > > Henry: Perhaps we should ask Michael if he made the same mistake that I > did, that standalone=no does not require a processor to read the external > declarations. > ... We should also see if he made it more clear in his previous comments > what he wanted. > > -> > [17]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-comments/2011Apr/0003.html > > Norm: Looking at Michael's comments, I think he has misinterpreted the > spec. > > <scribe> ACTION: Norm to respond to Micheal and see if we can come to the > same place. [recorded in > [18]http://www.w3.org/2012/03/15-xproc-minutes.html#action01] > > Alex: Reading Micheal's original comment, I think there are two > interpretations. One is that these are things he thinks the XML Rec says > and one is that these are the things he would like *us* to say. > > Norm: You think perhaps Micheal is saying that *we* should enforce this > behavior wrt to standalone. > ... The second issue he raises is validation, which he at least agrees we > improved. > ... I think Micheal makes a good point that it would be easy to read this > spec and missunderstand that validation is forbidden. > ... I wonder if we could improve things by mentioning validation in 2.3 > and 2.4 > ... We could say in point 1 "non-validating or non-valdating" > > Henry: We could add a note that says "this requirement is satisfied by any > conformant validating parser" > > Murray returns the discussion to standalone with the observation that the > XML spec says there's an algorithm for turning standalone=no into > standalone=yes > > Some discussion of how "algorithm" is to be interpreted; does a validating > parser suffice? > > Norm: I'm not sure a validating parser covers the case of an invalid but > well-formed document with standalone=no > > Henry: I think my problem with the standalone declaration is that it's a > significant increase in complexity for an area that's very little used. > > Alex: What would standalone help us with? > > Norm: I'm not sure what Micheal meant, so I'm not sure how to answer that. > ... In the basic and id profiles, standalone is irrelevant becase we don't > read the external decls and it's a validity constraint and a validating > parser can't be used to do the first two profiles. > > Murray: I think what Michael is saying is what I've been saying, > validatity and standalone=no are things that would change the result of > processing. > ... If you have a document that requires validation and/or requires > fetching external subsets is going to result in a different document. > ... And the truth value of that document changes depending on whether you > validate or not. > > Henry: That's why we put in the stuff about invariants, so we could be > very clear that what you get may change. > ... Maybe we should make it clear that a validating processor cannot > implement 2.1 and 2.2 if the documents have an external subset. > ... Validating parsers *must* read the external subset. > > <scribe> ACTION: Henry to draft notes for 2.1 and 2.2 saying that a > validating parser cannot be used if there's an external subset and to say > in 2.3 and 2.4 explicitly that validation could be performed [recorded in > [19]http://www.w3.org/2012/03/15-xproc-minutes.html#action02] > > Norm: Murray, what do you want to say about a standalone=no document with > external decls if it's parsed by a basic or id processor. > > Murray: I think I just want to say that you may have lost information. > > Norm: I have no objection to adding a note to that effect, I just don't > think changing behavior is within our remit. > > Murray: I still think there should be a profile that takes in an XML > document which was composed with a notion that it would be validated. > ... so it's truth value would be determined by that profile. > ... But the WG doesn't agree with that position, that's fine. I think that > Michael feels the same way. I think the amelioriting text will help. > > <scribe> ACTION: Norm to draft notes for 2.1 and 2.2 to describe the > consequences of information loss for a standalone=no document when it has > external declarations. [recorded in > [20]http://www.w3.org/2012/03/15-xproc-minutes.html#action03] > > Murray: What would be most satisfying to me is that if we had a profile > that covered validation and then if we deprecated it in V.next. > > Henry: I think we're doing better than that. The external declarations > profile gives you the infoset you want, whether or not its validated, and > then you can decide independently to validate it. > > Norm: Perhaps a note to that effect in 2.3 would be a good idea. > > Henry: In section 3, for class Extended perhaps we should say explicitly > that may be absent under 2.1 and 2.2. > > Michael also makes a bunch of editorial suggestions. > > <scribe> ACTION: Norm or Henry to implement Micheal's editorial changes, > raising any issues we see, if any. [recorded in > [21]http://www.w3.org/2012/03/15-xproc-minutes.html#action04] > > Progress on requirements/use cases > > Norm: Murray are you interested in working on the use cases and > requirements. > > Murray: Yes. I was talking to Alex, and I think we might work on it > together. > > Alex: Yep. > > Norm: Excellent. > ... Proposed ETA? > ... How about 12 April? > > Any other business? > > None heard. > > Adjourned. > > Summary of Action Items > > [NEW] ACTION: Henry to draft notes for 2.1 and 2.2 saying that a > validating parser cannot be used if there's an external subset and to say > in 2.3 and 2.4 explicitly that validation could be performed [recorded in > [22]http://www.w3.org/2012/03/15-xproc-minutes.html#action02] > [NEW] ACTION: Norm or Henry to implement Micheal's editorial changes, > raising any issues we see, if any. [recorded in > [23]http://www.w3.org/2012/03/15-xproc-minutes.html#action04] > [NEW] ACTION: Norm to draft notes for 2.1 and 2.2 to describe the > consequences of information loss for a standalone=no document when it has > external declarations. [recorded in > [24]http://www.w3.org/2012/03/15-xproc-minutes.html#action03] > [NEW] ACTION: Norm to respond to Micheal and see if we can come to the > same place. [recorded in > [25]http://www.w3.org/2012/03/15-xproc-minutes.html#action01] > > [End of minutes] > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Minutes formatted by David Booth's [26]scribe.perl version 1.136 ([27]CVS > log) > $Date: 2012/03/21 13:53:39 $ > > References > > 1. http://www.w3.org/ > 2. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/03/15-agenda > 3. http://www.w3.org/2012/03/15-xproc-irc > 4. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/03/15-minutes#agenda > 5. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/03/15-minutes#item01 > 6. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/03/15-minutes#item02 > 7. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/03/15-minutes#item03 > 8. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/03/15-minutes#item04 > 9. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/03/15-minutes#item05 > 10. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/03/15-minutes#item06 > 11. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/03/15-minutes#item07 > 12. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/03/15-minutes#item08 > 13. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/03/15-minutes#ActionSummary > 14. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/03/15-agenda > 15. http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2012/02/23-minutes > 16. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-comments/2012Jan/0000.html > 17. http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-processing-model-comments/2011Apr/0003.html > 18. http://www.w3.org/2012/03/15-xproc-minutes.html#action01 > 19. http://www.w3.org/2012/03/15-xproc-minutes.html#action02 > 20. http://www.w3.org/2012/03/15-xproc-minutes.html#action03 > 21. http://www.w3.org/2012/03/15-xproc-minutes.html#action04 > 22. http://www.w3.org/2012/03/15-xproc-minutes.html#action02 > 23. http://www.w3.org/2012/03/15-xproc-minutes.html#action04 > 24. http://www.w3.org/2012/03/15-xproc-minutes.html#action03 > 25. http://www.w3.org/2012/03/15-xproc-minutes.html#action01 > 26. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm > 27. http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/
Received on Friday, 6 April 2012 20:03:41 UTC