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Minutes for XML Core WG telcon of 2011 September 7

From: Norman Walsh <ndw@nwalsh.com>
Date: Wed, 07 Sep 2011 11:47:52 -0400
To: public-xml-core-wg@w3.org
Message-ID: <m2wrdkmk0n.fsf@nwalsh.com>
> See the XML Core group page [1] for pointers to current documents
> and other information.  If you have additions to the agenda, please
> email them to the WG list before the start of the telcon.
> Please also review our group page's task list [2] for accuracy and
> completeness and be prepared to amend if necessary and accept it
> at the beginning of the call.

Present: Norm, Liam, Henry, Glenn, Jirka
Regrets: Paul, Daniel, John at risk
Chair: Norm
Scribe: Norm

> We are cancelling our telcon of September 21 (neither Paul nor Norm
> can make it), so our subsequent telcon will be October 5th.

> Remember to register for TPAC if you plan to attend.

Discounted hotel rates end 10 October, registration closes 14 October.

> Agenda
> ======
> 1. Accepting the minutes from the last telcon [3] and
>    the current task status [2] (have any questions, comments,
>    or corrections ready by the beginning of the call).

Questions or comments about the minutes of the previous meeting?
None heard.

Questions or comments about today's agenda?
None heard.

> 2. Miscellaneous administrivia and document reviews.
> TPAC week
> ---------
> TPAC will be 31 October through 4 November 2011 in Santa Clara
> California.  I think we should plan to have a f2f during this
> week: http://www.w3.org/2011/11/TPAC/ - Meeting Overview page.
> Registration is now open:
> http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2011/
> The XML Core WG is meeting Thursday and Friday of the TPAC week.
> (Actually, we will probably only meet Thursday.)
> Likely attendance:
> Probably will:  Paul, Norm, Henry, Liam
> Maybe:  Mohamed
> Most likely won't:  John, Daniel, Jirka, Glenn
> xml-stylesheet and HTML5
> ------------------------
> Henry started a thread at
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-core-wg/2011Jul/0008
> In the HTML5 spec, when dealing with the XML prolog, there is
> nothing about processing instructions, so it isn't clear that
> browsers would pick up the xml-stylesheet PI.
> John Cowan said there was another part of the spec that applies
> to that process, but Henry hasn't yet followed up on that.
> ACTION to Henry:  Research to ensure that the xml-stylesheet PI
> is appropriately referenced from HTML5 and/or 3023bis (the XML
> media type definition).
> Note that 3023bis could say that browsers should reference
> Assoc SS and process the SSPI when processing an XML resource.

Henry: No progress.

Action continued.

> Extending Xinclude
> ------------------
> Norm sent email on behalf of DocBook at
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-core-wg/2011Jul/0013
> asking whether we want to consider extending Xinclude.
> The key issue is that xincluding content can often cause
> duplicate ids, and the question is whether we can define
> some kind of fix up.
> See http://docbook.org/docs/transclusion-requirements/#uc-5
> for a use case.
> See http://www.docbook.org/docs/transclusion/#d6e180 for
> some DocBook proposals for id fixup.
> A processor might be able to find ids and/or idrefs if xml:id
> is used and/or there is a DTD/schema available, and even if 
> that is the case, fixup would only work within the included
> module, but is that partial case worth augmenting XInclude.
> Liam suggests the only real solution is to do a transformation,
> so he doesn't feel there is an XInclude solution.
> Norm will try to implement Jirka's proposals using xproc.
> ACTION to Norm:  Try to implement Jirka's proposals using xproc.

Norm concludes it's probably not.

Liam: I had in mind reimplementing XInclude in XSLT.

Norm: With doc-available or try/catch, I guess you just might manage

Liam: Another way to look at it is, is it a use case worth taking back
to the XSLT WG.

ACTION to Norm: Try to implement Jirka's proposals using XSLT+XProc.

Norm: It did occur to me that if XInclude would just leave some sort
of a marker on the top-level elements that it includes, then maybe
that would be a hook for subsequent processing.

Jirka: That's what my implementation does, but it doesn't use XInclude
elements because they don't have that semantic.

Norm wonders if he'd get more support for the "identify roots"
extension to XInclude.

Glenn expresses some support.

Liam thinks it makes sense.

> 3.  XML 1.0--see http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/Core#xml-errata
> We are creating an XML 1.0 6th Edition and XML 1.1 3rd (or
> perhaps 6th) Edition.
> ACTION to John:  Update the XML sources for XML 1.0 and 1.1
> to reflect any errata and the LEIRI reference.
> On hold awaiting resolution of IRIbis.
> 4.  XML Test Suite.
> See also http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/Core#xml-test-suite
> ACTION to Henry:  Construct a test case for the XML test suite 
> issues raised by Frans Englich:
> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-testsuite/2007Mar/ 
> 5.  Namespaces in XML 1.0/1.1--see
>    http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/Core#ns1.0
>    and http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/Core#ns1.1.
> 6.  LEIRIs--see http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/Core#leiri
> We had planned to issue the following spec editions referencing LEIRIs:
> * XML 1.0 6th Edition
> * XML 1.1 3rd Edition
> * XInclude 3rd Edition
> We continue to wait to see what might happen with IRIbis.
> 7.  xml:id--see http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/Core#xml-id
> 8.  XML Base 2nd Ed--see http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/Core#xml-base
> 9.  XLink 1.1--see http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/Core#xlink1.1
> 10.  XInclude 3rd Ed--see http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/Core#xinclude
> We are creating an XInclude 3rd Edition.
> ACTION to Paul:  Update the XML sources for Xinclude to reflect 
> any errata and the LEIRI reference.
> On hold awaiting resolution of IRIbis.
> 11.  Associating Stylesheets.
> See also http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/Core#assoc-ss
> AssocSS 2nd Ed is now a Recommendation at
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/REC-xml-stylesheet-20101028/
> 12.  xml-model
> See also http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/Core#assoc-schemas
> The Second Edition has been published as a WG Note at
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/NOTE-xml-model-20110811/

13. XML Signature comments:

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-core-wg/2011Sep/0005.html

Jirka/Henry agree with Paul's conclusion.

-> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-core-wg/2011Sep/0006.html

Norm: Shall we endorse Paul's comments as WG comments?


ACTION to Norm: Send email to the Security WG endorsing Paul's
comments as WG comments.

> [1] http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/Core
> [2] http://www.w3.org/XML/Group/Core#tasks
> [3] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xml-core-wg/2011Aug/0023

Any other business?

None heard.


                                        Be seeing you,

Norman Walsh
Lead Engineer
MarkLogic Corporation
Phone: +1 413 624 6676

Received on Wednesday, 7 September 2011 15:48:23 UTC

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