Minutes for: WebID Teleconf, Tuesday 22 March 2011

It looks like we forgot to get rrsagent going. So here are the meeting minutes presented via Adium.

Harry Halpin gave a very detailed overview of the two meetings: the california one and the Berlin meeting. Attendees really liked this less formal meeting finding it very useful. So we will try to have more informal meetings...


 

16:01
Zakim
+ +1.781.866.aabb
16:02
scor
Zakim, +1.781.866.aabb is me
16:02
Zakim
+scor; got it
16:05
mischat
Zakim: what is the code ?
16:05
Zakim
+ +1.805.416.aacc
16:07
bblfish
hi
16:07
Zakim
+??P2
16:07
scor
zakim, ??P6 is laszlo
16:07
Zakim
+laszlo; got it
16:07
mischat
zakim, ??P2 is me
16:07
Zakim
+mischat; got it
16:07
mischat
zakim, mute me
16:07
Zakim
mischat should now be muted
16:07
laszlo
thx
16:07
scor
zakim, who is making noise?
16:08
bblfish
zakim, who is making noise?
16:08
Zakim
scor, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: laszlo (38%), bblfish (15%)
16:08
laszlo
zakim, mute me
16:08
Zakim
laszlo should now be muted
16:08
Zakim
bblfish, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: bblfish (43%), +1.574.277.aaaa (5%)
16:08mischat	hello all
16:08
scor
I will be mostly talking via IRC
16:09
laszlo
for some reason, my connection is always noisy, not sure why, probably a client issue, as I kept relocating, will be in listen only mode
16:09
scor
though I can hear everyone on the call
16:09
scor
bblfish: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-webid/2011Mar/0076.html
16:09
bblfish
laszlo, have you tried voip?
16:10
scor
bblfish: nope,
16:10
laszlo
im on voip
16:10
bblfish
I am on voip today
16:10
laszlo
with ekiga
16:10
scor
just browsing the mailing list
16:10
scor
bblfish: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-webid/
16:11
scor
I can scribe,
16:11
harry [harry@128.30.52.28] entered the room.
16:11
scor
though I;m not an expert
16:11
harry
\me will dial in shortly
argh spanish keyboard :)
16:12
bblfish
what is [on] [the] agenda?
zakim, what is [on] [the] agenda?
16:12
Zakim
I don't understand your question, bblfish.
16:12
harry
Zakim, what's the code?
16:12
Zakim
the conference code is 93243 (tel:+1.617.761.6200tel:+33.4.26.46.79.03 tel:+44.203.318.0479), harry
+??P1
16:13
mischat
zakim, what's the agenda?
16:13
Zakim
I see nothing on the agenda
16:13
harry
Zakim, ??P1
16:13
Zakim
I don't understand '??P1', harry
16:13
harry
Zakim, ??P1 is harry
16:13
Zakim
+harry; got it
16:13
harry
whatever works for the group
16:13
bblfish
Today is a less ordered conf call, due to circumstances
of this being on Tuesday and not the usual monday
So we start with Harry talking on Confs
16:14
scor
harry: starts the conf call
16:14
harry
http://www.w3.org/2011/identity-ws/Overview.html
"Identity in the Browser"
hosted by Mozilla May 24-25th in Mountain View
16:14
scor
this is the first workshop hosted by Mozilla in Mountain View
16:15
harry
what roles browser vendors can play in securing identity and help out higher-levels of assurance
OpenID, SAML
16:15
scor
what roles browser vendor can play in security
discussion on certificates likely to happen
16:15
harry
UProve
16:15
scor
google, Microsoft (IE), Opera, Apple
16:16
harry
Tom Smedinghoff EV certificates
16:16
scor
we should get a position paper at this workshop
16:16
peterw [home_pw@64.134.236.190] entered the room.
16:16
harry
Aza Raskin's "Identity in the Browser"
16:16
scor
and at least a member of the XG attending
16:17
mischat
http://www.azarask.in/blog/post/identity-in-the-browser-firefox/
16:17
scor
position paper can be short, due April 22nd
focus on the fact there will most of the browser vendor in the room.
be light on the semantic web, rather focus on the low hanging fruits for vendor to fix
be specific on what bugs to fix
16:18
bblfish
sounds questions?
sounds good, any questions?
16:18
scor
WebID spec would be one input
16:19
jeffsayre
q+
16:19Zakim	sees jeffsayre on the speaker queue
16:19
peterw
a main point of FOAF+SSL (webid) was that semantic web was (in a RDFa foaf card) low hanging fruit. This was the premise of this initiative. Is foaf itself too semwebby?
16:19
jeffsayre
Zakim, unmute
16:19
Zakim
I don't understand 'unmute', jeffsayre
16:19
harry
Well, FOAF is something that folks can use in HTML.
16:19
bblfish
q?
16:19Zakim	sees jeffsayre on the speaker queue
16:19
peterw
q+
16:19Zakim	sees jeffsayre, peterw on the speaker queue
16:20
scor
jeffsayre: how many papers would be presented?
16:20
mischat
Zakim, unmute jeffsayre
16:20
Zakim
sorry, mischat, I do not know which phone connection belongs to jeffsayre
16:21
scor
harry: attendance will be capped, 30 ppl in PC => 10 to 20 presentations
short presentations (15min)
intention is to get vendors to fix bugs for WebID to work better across browsers
be concrete with the vendors, what the can do fast...
16:22
bblfish
q?
16:22Zakim	sees jeffsayre, peterw on the speaker queue
16:22
scor
hopefully the Opera folks can have something working
16:23
harry
However, browsers do not have native RDFa support, nor do they seem particularly interested right now, although that may change. See David Baron's comment on RDFa charter. However, Mozilla has hired Ben Adida, so maybe RDFa support will kick in.  
16:23mischat	how many people here are on the west coast of the US ?
16:23
Zakim
- +1.805.416.aacc
16:23
harry
http://www.ieee-security.org/TC/SP2011/index.html
16:24
Zakim
+ +1.805.416.aadd
16:24
scor
workshop colocated with IEEE 2011 on security and privacy
16:24
bblfish
q?
16:24Zakim	sees jeffsayre, peterw on the speaker queue
16:24
mischat
ack jeffsayre
16:24Zakim	sees peterw on the speaker queue
16:25
scor
peterw: although WebID started within the SW realm, be light on this at a workshop which is not SW centric
harry: Mozilla's RDF implementation was broken and not maintained.
Yahoo's recent stats saying RDFa is doing quite well, though unclear who is using it
still a lot of interest in it
http://tripletalk.wordpress.com/2011/01/25/rdfa-deployment-across-the-web/
16:26
bblfish
q+
16:26Zakim	sees peterw, bblfish on the speaker queue
16:26
mischat
https://tripletalk.wordpress.com/2011/01/25/rdfa-deployment-across-the-web/
16:27
webr3 [nathan@86.142.135.45] entered the room.
16:27
claudio [qw3birc@128.30.52.28] entered the room.
16:27
scor
Mozilla hired Ben Adida, so fair to think browser vendor will have a closer look at RDFa
vendors might want to prioritize certificates (e.g. firesheep), WebID could benefit
peterw: it's the usable browser vendor in the PC,
16:29mischat	wonders how webid fits in the web tracking and user privacy :http://www.w3.org/2011/track-privacy/
16:29
Zakim
+ +1.781.273.aaee
-laszlo
16:29mischat	harry i am not of committee
16:29
MacTed
Zakim, aaee is OpenLink_Software
16:29
Zakim
+OpenLink_Software; got it
16:29
MacTed
Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
16:29
Zakim
+MacTed; got it
16:29mischat	s/of/not/
16:30
scor
I'm having trouble distinguishing who is saying what - could speaker give there name when they speak?
16:30
Zakim
+??P6
16:30
harry
?
16:30
jeffsayre
Zakim, who's noisy?
16:30
scor
zakim, who is making noise?
16:30
harry
Zakim, who's making noise?
16:30
laszlo
zakim, ??P6 is me
16:30
Zakim
+laszlo; got it
16:30
laszlo
zakim, mute me
16:30
Zakim
laszlo should now be muted
16:30
mischat
zakim, mute +??P6
16:30
Zakim
sorry, mischat, I do not know which phone connection belongs to +??P6
16:30
harry
Zakim, mute laszlo
16:30
Zakim
laszlo was already muted, harry
16:30
Zakim
jeffsayre, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: ??P6 (19%), +1.805.416.aadd (23%), bblfish (33%), +1.574.277.aaaa (14%)
16:30
Zakim
scor, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: MacTed (32%)
harry, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: MacTed (42%)
16:31
MacTed
Zakim, mute me
16:31
Zakim
MacTed should now be muted
16:31
MacTed
even if I am already quiet!
16:31
Zakim
-mischat
16:31mischat	brb
16:32
scor
bblfish: we might want to have more than 20min for the WebID XG as it's hard to explain WebId in less than 20mins
16:32
yngve [yngve@213.236.208.22] entered the room.
16:32
scor
harry: let's see when we have the papers ready. would like to see the spec more mature so there can be feedback on it
16:33
Zakim
+??P2
16:33
scor
bblfish: loads of conferences. WebID is dangerous for some because it's so simple and solves so much problems
16:33
yngve
Zakim, ??P2 is yngve
16:33
Zakim
+yngve; got it
16:34
scor
difficult if we don't have enough time to explain that with such simplicity you can do a lot
harry: will consider it
using certificated will be a natural fit because most of the audience will be familiar with it
16:35
scor
bblfish:  you wanted to talk about the Berlin talk
16:35
jeffsayre
The focus of position paper should thus be, from browser community perspective, How much benefit WebID brings with little additional effort.
16:35
scor
harry: announcement later in the week
16:35
harry
http://d-cent.org/fsw2011/
Federated Social Web Europe
This time we got both Mischa and Henry on the PC.
16:36
scor
both mischat bblfish on the PC
16:36
harry
http://d-cent.org/fsw2011/cfp/
16:36
Zakim
+??P13
16:36
scor
workshop, panels, quite a lot of space (1,5 day), open space for hacking and coding
16:37
Zakim
+??P14
16:37
mischat
zakime, ??P14 is me
zakim, ??P14 is me
16:37
Zakim
+mischat; got it
16:37
scor
focused on WebID server-side
16:37
mischat
zakim, mute me
16:37
Zakim
mischat should now be muted
16:37
harry
Jan Schallab?ck, ULD
Berlin June 3-5th
position papers are optional!
16:38mischat	is sorry, I had to take another call, been building saml stuff :(
16:38mischat	didn't know that i was on the pc for this ;)
16:38
harry
\me we moved you when you said you could not attend the west coast attendance!
16:39
bblfish
q?
16:39Zakim	sees peterw, bblfish on the speaker queue
16:39
bblfish
q-
16:39Zakim	sees peterw on the speaker queue
16:39
scor
bblfish: WebID meeting in Berlin, great place to meet other WebID people
16:39
bblfish
and also great place to meet SocialWeb people !
16:40
scor
the Germans take privacy more seriously than other countries
16:41
peterw
the issue is that webid needs to recast itself, beyond semweb benefits. it has to be about UCI - and self assertions. (the old openid message)
16:41
scor
peterw: UCI?
16:41
jeffsayre
Federated Social Web XG folks are planning on meeting at that conference, I believe
16:41
harry
+1 peterw
16:41
peterw
user centric identity
16:41
scor
ppl from European parliament speaking
16:42
bblfish
+1
16:42
peterw
the workshop doesnt allow individuals for example, only organizations. its an example of how webid distinguishes itself
16:42mischat	i.e. "right to be forgotten" and the eu cookie laws are probably the two relevant european initiatives
16:42
scor
1 day of panels, 1day of position papers and 1 day of hakcing
16:42
bblfish
q?
16:42Zakim	sees peterw on the speaker queue
16:42
harry
both workshops accept individuals. The USA one requires position papers, the EU one does not.
16:42
peterw
q-
16:42Zakim	sees no one on the speaker queue
16:44
scor
the workshop in CA does accept individuals as long as they have a position paper
16:45
bblfish
the European meeting is sponsored by EU and W3C and so has wider range
The Freedbom Box people?
http://wiki.debian.org/FreedomBox
16:46
mischat
mattl is on the PC fwiw
s/mattl/matt lee/
16:46
bblfish
cool :-)
16:46
jeffsayre
+1
16:47
scor
bblfish: ought to try to get ppl from america to come to the European events
16:47
scor
harry: lack of funding
16:47
harry
Yes, Matt Lee also needs travel funding :)
16:47
bblfish
we need to get more  US people on webid bandwaggon
16:47
scor
bblfish: we need more US in WebID HX in general
s/bblfish: we need more US in WebID HX in general/bblfish: we need more US people in the WebID XG in general
16:48
harry
http://www.w3.org/2010/07/community
16:48mischat	has
16:49
harry
"Community Groups"
Individuals can join, as individuals
16:49
jeffsayre
+1
16:49
harry
There will be no FEE
16:49
scor
harry: allow incubator groups to transition to community groups
16:49
harry
for joining a community group.
It will not Team Contact
16:50
scor
will not have a team contact
16:50
peterw
q+
16:50Zakim	sees peterw on the speaker queue
16:50
harry
We provide some (hopefully) blogging, in a dencentralized and microblogging
16:50
scor
might have federated microbloging
16:50
harry
There is no charter end-date
16:51
bblfish
q?
16:51Zakim	sees peterw on the speaker queue
16:51
scor
CG would be more appealing than current XG, or others. transition around April
peterw: how to get involved in the workshop in CA/MV?
harry: goals is to get IPs out of the standards
16:53
bblfish
peterw: how did the W3C get involved in the California workshop.
16:53
scor
CG would be more lightweight, individuals can participate without any IP conflict with their employer
good move, e.g. no position paper required, and open hacking sessions
include creative individuals in the process
peterw: seems the positon of the W3C has change over time wrt to certificates/browser vendors
16:55
bblfish
peterw: has the W3C changed its heart on certificates or identity in the browser
16:55
harry
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2008May/0222.html
16:56
scor
harry: one of the reasons W3C didn't engage in the identity space: 1. patents
16:56
harry
IETF
16:56
scor
https: divison between data format (W3C) and protocols (IETF)
peterw: W3C was neutral and on the fence, 2 workshop to see if W3C should be involved
in this identity topic
16:58
scor
bblfish: we're reaching the hour
16:58
scor
harry: W3C has to attempt to engage the community issue. push the Web as a royalty free platform
if some part of the web are broken, ppl are tempted to use proprietary technologies
16:59
bblfish
http://futureoftheinternet.org/
16:59
mischat
http://www.amazon.com/Future-Internet-How-Stop/dp/0300124872
http://futureoftheinternet.org/download
16:59
scor
W3C can only work as long as it gets concensus from its members
16:59
mischat
the book is CC share alive 3.0 ^^
17:00
scor
bblfish: get the bandwagon moving by building a network effect around WebID
bblfish: most important is to get demos working
17:00
harry
yep, user-experience.
sslstrip
17:01
bblfish
logout issue in ssl
17:02
jeffsayre
bblfish: We still need to approve last meeting's minutes.
17:02
scor
+1
17:02
laszlo
+1
17:02
jeffsayre
Thanks, Harry.
17:02
laszlo
thank you
17:02
bblfish
+1 for last meeting minutes
17:03
jeffsayre
+1
17:03
bblfish
bye harry
17:03
Zakim
-MacTed
17:03
scor
last meeting's minutes: http://www.w3.org/2011/03/07-webid-minutes.html
17:03
peterw
meeting ended?
17:03
Zakim
-harry
17:04
jeffsayre
Need to discuss position paper submission for Identity in the Browser workshop
17:06
bblfish
action: make position paper for California paper, formulate messaging
17:06trackbot	noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
17:06
trackbot
Sorry, couldn't find user - make
17:06
scor
ACTION bblfish to make position paper for California paper, formulate messaging
17:06trackbot	noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
17:06
trackbot
Created ACTION-21 - Make position paper for California paper, formulate messaging [on Henry Story - due 2011-03-29].
17:06
bblfish
action: to have biweelkly unformal meeting
17:06trackbot	noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
17:06
trackbot
Sorry, couldn't find user - to
17:07
scor
ACTION bblfish to have biweelkly unformal meeting
17:07trackbot	noticed an ACTION. Trying to create it.
17:07
trackbot
Created ACTION-22 - Have biweelkly unformal meeting [on Henry Story - due 2011-03-29].
17:09
danbri [danbri@93.123.21.121] entered the room.
17:09
mischat
+1 to that , what you can get in terms of benefits from webid followed by a list of fixes which the browser vendors could provide to make webid an even smoother user experience
17:16mischat	even I am following it now :)
17:17
Zakim
-laszlo
17:17
bblfish
bye
17:17
Zakim
- +1.805.416.aadd
17:17
jeffsayre
bye
17:17
Zakim
-mischat
17:17
mischat
bye all
17:17
Zakim
-scor
- +1.574.277.aaaa
-yngve
17:17
yngve left the room (quit: Quit: yngve).
17:18
Zakim
-??P13
17:18
bblfish
Now we have to close the meeting
17:18
peterw
formally
17:18
scor
bblfish: yes, can you do that?
17:18
Zakim
-bblfish
17:18
Zakim
INC_WEBID()11:00AM has ended
17:18
Zakim
Attendees were bblfish, +1.574.277.aaaa, scor, +1.805.416.aacc, laszlo, mischat, harry, +1.805.416.aadd, +1.781.273.aaee, MacTed, yngve
17:18
bblfish
ah it happens when everyone logs out of teleconf
17:18
scor
bblfish: and generate the minutes
17:19
peterw left the room.
17:19
mischat
there was no rssagent
17:19
claudio left the room (quit: Ping timeout).
17:19
bblfish
no?
17:19
scor
does that mean the minutes were not recorded?
17:19
mischat
i am not sure
17:19mischat	googles
17:19
bblfish
well my client recorded them
17:20
mischat
worth saving your client logs incase