W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > public-xg-webid@w3.org > April 2011

RE: a totally minimal RDFa doc, please

From: peter williams <home_pw@msn.com>
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 04:42:05 -0700
Message-ID: <SNT143-ds14CB17384791FB37A4933992AE0@phx.gbl>
To: "'Henry Story'" <henry.story@bblfish.net>
CC: "'Akbar Hossain'" <mail@akbarhossain.com>, "'WebID XG'" <public-xg-webid@w3.org>
Go through that more slowly, I'm willing to do anything that a consumer can
do - who use the basic services of dominant players like Google, Yahoo,
Live, etc. It has to make their life easy (the user) not mine (the


The point of the RDFa was that - and here I show some [more] ignorance -
that it was HTML and thus processable as such by resource servers delivering
the desired triples. My question was - yes its [X]HTML.. But does it have to
be *properly* tagged in XML DocumenType, for the conforming webid validation
agent in the resource server then to pick up those [RDFa] triples?


Or, can the additional markup be inserted in any old, half reasonably
structured HTML page (as are microtags), with any old documenttype header,
mostly but perhaps not perfectly conforming XML structure, etc? 


(These days, I night get away with requiring folks to be XHTML conforming,
in the XML sense - since newer homes pages are at typically at the XHTML
baseline, at this point)


I just loved that service Akbar Hossain showed the other day, that gave me
the rdf/xml for an RDFa source. I loved it because it potentially gives me
just ONE base standard of triples to work with as a programmer (but allowed
users to use HTMLish formats, editors, blog sites, etc as suits their world


If I could consume a service that translated RDFa back into RDF/XML, I can
go back to using the .net RDF engine in my resource server library (and rely
less on uriburner). Then I can program my resource server to follow
redirects, maintain cookies, and do whatever else it needs to do to read an
Opera Unite hosted home page [with the RDFa tiples embedded]!


I have a million realtors to serve, who use 5000+ different home page
providers, of all sorts of vintages and qualities. What I do (unlike the
more research focussed folks, here) HAS TO WORK in that context. I cannot
say: oh dump your vendor and move now onto this nice new system.to make
webid work. Those vendor relationships are part of the realtor social
network, and form part of the de-centralized, localized, "American
main-street" trust that makes US realty what it is. The "vendor" is probably
the firm of a friend of a friend or a colleagues cousin looking for a first
job, used because of some wider professional issue set affecting the
individual realtor's one-woman business. If you know anything how women
network and manage (speaking as a man), you don't interfere in those
relations; you leave them alone, and they just "work".



From: Henry Story [mailto:henry.story@bblfish.net] 
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 11:22 AM
To: peter williams
Cc: 'Akbar Hossain'; 'WebID XG'
Subject: Re: a totally minimal RDFa doc, please


Why bother about RDFa then? Just add the triples to a graph using your
favorite library and have it spit it out for you in rdf/xml automatically.
It's a lot easier to do that way. Use the appropriate tools and make your
life easy.




On 16 Apr 2011, at 20:13, peter williams wrote:

Will the average resource site directed to pick out the RDFa from any old
HTML or XHTML page? Or does it NEED to be carefully crafted with the right
Document type headers, etc.


If I cannot get the Opera unit stuff to work (and Im about to give up), what
I want is enxt to do to be able to take the content pattern you shoed
(substituted with a 3rdparties user's URI and cert mod), email it to the 3rd
party with the counsel that they stick it on a blog post for which only they
have write access. But, obviously, that blog page is not going to be a
dedicated XHTML+RDfa document type; it will be some random bit of HTML,
XHTML - the usual, non-conforming, 80% working, web mess.



From: peter williams [mailto:home_pw@msn.com] 
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 9:59 AM
To: 'Akbar Hossain'
Cc: 'WebID XG'
Subject: RE: RE: Re: a totally minimal RDFa doc, please


That what I did. I copied your page, byte for byte, from a socket spy.
Perhaps I changed a byte too many and upset a (unwebby) ultra fussy syntax?


The only thing I changed in the graph part was the about ref, and the
cert:id. I only did that after it didn't work when simply hosting your page
with no change (hoping it was an RDF issue.)




Im *guessing* that what the browser sees is NOT what the server http client
sees (be it an extractor client, or uriburner client). There are definitely
redirects and cookies and other stuff going on,  when I spy on the handoffs.
What the betting that the average resource server is not going to be willing
to leverage these "browser" centric features of the endpoint?


If I invoke the extractor, it seems to analyze some intermediate page.


Im trying really hard to use consumer stuff (and not run a webserver).



From:  <mailto:akkiehossain@gmail.com> akkiehossain@gmail.com
[mailto:akkiehossain@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Akbar Hossain
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 8:52 AM
To: peter williams
Cc:  <mailto:mail@akbarhossain.com> mail@akbarhossain.com; WebID XG
Subject: Re: RE: Re: a totally minimal RDFa doc, please



If you run your page thru the rdfa distiller there is no key. Perhaps copy
my page without too many edits first.


On 14 Apr 2011 15:38, "peter williams" < <mailto:home_pw@msn.com>
home_pw@msn.com> wrote:
> Almost perfect - in that there is (i) total minimum of markup, (ii) anyone
can understand that, and (iii) a lovely rdfa extractor proves its viable.
> So, I stuff a variant on
http://home.homepw2.operaunite.com/webserver/content/# . and the extractor
doesn't work! I guess uriburner wont work either, for some a related
(unknown) reasons.
> Sigh. 
> But thanks. It's the right idea.
> From:  <mailto:public-xg-webid-request@w3.org>
public-xg-webid-request@w3.org [mailto:
<mailto:public-xg-webid-request@w3.org> public-xg-webid-request@w3.org] On
Behalf Of Coralie Mercier
> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2011 4:53 AM
> To: WebID XG
> Subject: Fwd: Re: a totally minimal RDFa doc, please
> [Messages from "Akbar Hossain" < <mailto:mail@akbarhossain.com>
mail@akbarhossain.com> seem to not end up on the
<mailto:public-xg-webid@w3.org> public-xg-webid@w3.org list and archive. I'm
investigating. Meanwhile, I'm forwarding the message to the list.]
> ------- Forwarded message -------
> From: "Akbar Hossain" < <mailto:mail@akbarhossain.com>
> To: "peter williams" < <mailto:home_pw@msn.com> home_pw@msn.com>
> Subject: Re: a totally minimal RDFa doc, please
> Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2011 10:23:04 +0200
> Perhaps look at the source of my home page.  <http://akbarhossain.com/>
> You could remove the rdfa validator link, the email verifier link and pem
> Maybe make the cert details non visible elements of the page ...
> Endless possibilities.
> (I generated the page from the second tab of  <http://x509.me/>
> The test a certificate option. My cert was generated of the first page
(optional). My cert had a SAN pointing to a blank page to start with. Press
the test button on the second tab. It fails as it was a blank page and spits
out the rdfa required for it to pass. Cut, copy, paste.)
> Hope that helps.
> Thanks.
> On 14 Apr 2011 05:07, "peter williams" < <mailto:home_pw@msn.com>
home_pw@msn.com> wrote:
> -- 
> Coralie Mercier - Communications Team - Incubator Activity Lead 
> World Wide Web Consortium -  <http://www.w3.org/> http://www.w3.org
> W3C/ERCIM - N212 - 2004, rte des lucioles - 06410 Biot - FR
> mailto: <mailto:coralie@w3.org> coralie@w3.org +33492387590
<http://www.w3.org/People/CMercier/> http://www.w3.org/People/CMercier/


Social Web Architect
 <http://bblfish.net/> http://bblfish.net/

Received on Sunday, 17 April 2011 11:42:37 UTC

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