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Meeting Minutes for July 15th Social Web XG Telecon

From: Harry Halpin <hhalpin@ibiblio.org>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2009 20:12:28 +0100
Message-ID: <b3be92a00907151212g14c0fde6j6bc685c07ee196e1@mail.gmail.com>
To: public-xg-socialweb@w3.org
A bit messy, but here nonetheless:

HTML: http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html

15 Jul 2009

   See also: [2]IRC log

      [2] http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-irc

Attendees

   Present
   Regrets
   Chair
          DKA

   Scribe
          hhalpin, Mischa

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-07-15T13:00-15:00Z
         2. [5]General Organization and Task Forces
         3. [6]User Stories
         4. [7]Simon Tenant and Oslo Alliance
         5. [8]Matt Womer and W3C Geolocation API
     * [9]Summary of Action Items
     _________________________________________________________



   <jsalvachua> zakim aabb is me

   <jsalvachua> oh i see ;)

   <jsalvachua> thanks matt

   <hhalpin> scribe: hhalpin

   Minutes:

   [10]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html

     [10] http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html

   PROPOSED: Approve July 8th minutes?

   <tinkster> +1

   <tpa> +1

   <oshani> +1

   RESOLUTION: July 8th minutes approved.

   Note that DKA will be gone for 3 weeks following.

   next meeting

Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-07-15T13:00-15:00Z

   SimonTenant: Signed in to talk about Oslo

   <cperey> +1

   It doesn't appear Mischa is on the call

   [CONTINUTES] ACTION: Mischa to write up Soren and Jonathan's
   findings from last telecon for final report.

   <tinkster> Aha, speak of the devil!

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] danbri circulate wookie proposal to
   the xg [recorded in
   [11]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action01]

   <mischat> hello all, I dont have voice today, I am sorry

   no problem mischa

   any luck on the actions?

   cperey: Note that Christley from Gypsii is next invited speaker

   <mischat> nope I have been doing thesis, I will get them done by the
   next meeting

General Organization and Task Forces

   hhalpin: I propose that we then focus on next meeting

User Stories

   <cperey> My action was finished!

   <cperey> about a month or 6 weeks ago

   <cperey> I tried to close it out

   <cperey> but the service didn't "accept"

   cperey: I posted my list
   ... the main challenge is how do we integrate this list
   ... we should then leave them on.
   ... we have had list-serv discussions
   ... does it include content sharing services?
   ... should we have a W3C approved definition?
   ... An industry definition?
   ... we need a relevant open item.

   <cperey> +1

   <cperey> a principled way of doing metrics

   <cperey> I'm really keen to do this

   <mischat> +1

   <cperey> harry will look at the schedule to see when we can have a
   metrics discussoin

   hhalpin: let's have a metric discussion

   DKA: have it for next week call

   <cperey> I will not be available July 29

   DKA: Or for next call.

   cperey: relevant for next call

   hhalpin: useful summary report

   cperey: will push to list the past e-mails on this subject

   <cperey> I will point to the past posts on this topic

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] danbri circulate wookie proposal to
   the xg [recorded in
   [12]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action02]

   <scribe> ACTION: [CONTINUES] Mischa to describe/implement a report
   of terms and conditions, and how they change between now and the end
   of the XG. [recorded in
   [13]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action03]

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [DONE] Sören to propose addition to the template
   for user stories for privacy conditions [recorded in
   [14]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action04]

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] adam to write up the boeing use case
   for enterprise social networks [recorded in
   [15]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action05]

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] hhalpin to write up the social network
   data exchange story [recorded in
   [16]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action06]

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [DONE] danbri to write up widget business story.
   [recorded in
   [17]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action07]

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [DONE] jsalvachua to write up business use-case
   with the company he's been working with. [recorded in
   [18]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action08]

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] danbri to write up widget business
   story. [recorded in
   [19]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action09]

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] tpa to look for similar use cases list
   to expand ours [recorded in
   [20]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action10]

   <hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] tinkster to document danbri's
   microblogging provenance question as a user story. [recorded in
   [21]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action11]

   <jsalvachua> i wrote, just in time, a first version its on the wiki

   yep, it's marked as done.

   DKA: Simon Tenant, guest spaker

   <SimonTenant:> We are one of the founders of mobile start-up
   Buddycloud

   <SimonTenant:> Geolocation is one of the elements of the a larger
   product

   SimonTenant: looked at Google's efforts
   ... applicaitons like Rumble, using location to recommend relevant
   restaurants

   <mischat> is there a url for the OSLO alliance

   <mischat> ?

   SimonTenant: buddycloud shows you nearby friends
   ... we started talking between each other that
   ... we need to avoid an AOL IM scenario
   ... too many different ways to do this
   ... we wanted to come up with a way for this to be done
   ... about 30 similar companies
   ... it's where we've come from for OSLO.
   ... we have working code
   ... working federation now
   ... so its working quite well
   ... we're working through the teething problems
   ... we're not trying to reinvent the wheel
   ... we're on 13 signatories to first press release
   ... looking at best of breed activities.
   ... some talk of XMPP
   ... we run on top of XMPP

   <oshani> mischat,
   [22]http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/02/23/oslo-alliance-wants-to
   -share-location-across-networks/ (from the agenda)

     [22] http://digital.venturebeat.com/2009/02/23/oslo-alliance-wants-to-share-location-across-networks/

   <mischat> thanks oshani

   SimonTenant: we've applied a very light specification on top of
   XMPP.

   <matt> [23]the code (I believe)

     [23] http://code.google.com/p/oslo-protocol/

   SimonTenant: these are the simple situations
   ... privacy, kickback of error

   SimonTentant: Light touch on top of exiting technologies, so within
   2 months we have working code and federation between Akai-Akai and
   BuddyCloud
   ... we use XMPP to push this sort of stuff out
   ... similar to instant messenger list
   ... push location out in particular
   ... the other side, these networks rely on mobile phone
   ... these applications are running 24 seven
   ... but mobile phone batteries can't handle this
   ... by not default your not just popping up to everyone nearby
   ... but to people that allow them "opt-in"
   ... much more exciting for users
   ... great business driver

   <DKA> Simon also noted: the increased number of users available via
   OSLO chairing is a business driver...

   <SimonTennant:> We can finally see mobile location based advertising
   actually happen

   <SimonTennant:> nearby advertisements is a driver

   <SimonTennant:> OSLO is a way to help standardise location-sharing
   in real-time

   <SimonTennant:> oslo is open, no master list of companies which can
   join

   <SimonTennant:> to join all you have to do is publish a statement in
   dns saying that you can share geo location

   <SimonTennant:> there is a trust network, networks can dictate which
   other networks they wish to share with

   <SimonTennant:> users are in control of who they share their
   location with

   <SimonTennant:> user love sharing location, just like facebook, can
   live with out

   <SimonTennant:> privacy policies, users should always be able to
   opt-out of sharing location

   <SimonTennant:> as well as giving user a level of granularity to
   control who they share their location with

   <SimonTennant:> oslo plan to release code in the next couple of
   weeks

   <SimonTennant:> oslo allows people to share location between
   networks

   oslo should scale,

   DKA> you talk about user's ability to select which networks to share
   with, and how networks can decide to who other networks to share
   with, have you owriten this up ?

   SimonTenant:> no not yet, but good idea, and oslo should write this
   up

   <tinkster> here again - [24]http://code.google.com/p/oslo-protocol/

     [24] http://code.google.com/p/oslo-protocol/

   matt: is all of the work happening at the code.google.com url above
   ^^?

   SimonTenant: yes, but we need to commit to svn more often

   matt: Have you thought about taking this a standards body ?

   SimonTeant: oslo doesn't state how you get your location, this is up
   the client/user, oslo is more about best practises when it comes to
   sharing location

   <tinkster> OSLO = server-to-server communication of location, rather
   than user-to-server or user-to-user.

   <jsalvachua> i agree is a wonderful work.

   so much more context about a user, other than just location, would
   be nice to be able to share more than just location, oslo would like
   integrate/be involved with any other context sharing

   SimonTenant:> oslo hasn't created lots of code, BSD license, based
   on XMPP and other open technologies

   Oshani:>: does oslo handle location history ?

   SimonTenant:> oslo is about real-time sharing of location

   <cperey> sounds like location history saving policies are a place
   for user education/best practices

   <tinkster> A "time to live" on each piece of location data?

   <melvster> oslo-protocol nearby object query spec:
   [25]http://code.google.com/p/oslo-protocol/wiki/NearbyObjectQuerySpe
   c

     [25] http://code.google.com/p/oslo-protocol/wiki/NearbyObjectQuerySpec

   you have to trust your friends to not store/create histories of ones
   location

   <matt>

   ><DKA>introduces matt, w3c team contact for geolocation working
   group

   they outputted the javascript geolocation API

   <matt> [26]Last Call WD

     [26] http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-geolocation-API-20090707/

   the last call was last week

   there is a public geolocation API mailing list

   the API is entirely based on javascript

   it is implemented in Opera, Safari, andriod, google gears plugin

   and ff3.5 all implementing the geo location API

   API is very simple, the ability to get a one shot geo-location, and
   it can be used to track your position

   <matt>
   [27]http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-geolocation-API-20090707/#security

     [27] http://www.w3.org/TR/2009/WD-geolocation-API-20090707/#security

   it is only a client side specification

   privacy is only considered at a wording level

   you can try this out with google maps, and ff 3.5

   you should be able to see where you are

   the geolocation API does not dictate how the user's location is
   located

   it could get the location from wifi-triangulation, based on IP
   address gazatteer

   currently considering more address based location descriptions,
   other than just lat/long

   for example, I am near a coffee shop, or near this address

   <inserted> Hhalpin: hhalpin

   <mischat> sure hhalpin

   DKA: has the group talked around any scenarios about privacy?

   Matt: privacy is about 90 percent of the volume on the mailing list
   ... we've tried to go a number of ways
   ... IETF geopriv people came in
   ... completely different use-cases
   ... they were more towards how location is shared on wire
   ... emergency services
   ... a service built into a cable modem

   <oshani> here's one use case I drafted on the wiki based on geo
   location:
   [28]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories#Infe
   rences_on_location_based_contextual_data

     [28] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories#Inferences_on_location_based_contextual_data

   matt: life or death issues
   ... in contrast, we are dealing with different use-cases
   ... we are talking about "find me the nearest starbucks"
   ... completely different privacy needs there
   ... we thought about including in API the user's privacy preferences

   <tinkster> Probably not going to use Javascript to report
   life-or-death emergencies.

   matt: including rights within the API
   ... but bad people will do bad things and we cannot stop them with
   the API but we will let browser take care of it.
   ... otherwise, we ended up not including most discussed privacy work
   ... we imagine other device APIs
   ... so now we have a Device API and Policy WG
   ... we don't want each API to have a different take on privacy

   DKA: I understand that the geolocation API decided not to deal with
   the question in the WG
   ... is there anywhere we in this XG should look to harvest some of
   this privacy related work?

   <DKA> Simon

   Simon: the demos I've seen have always used Skyhooks

   SimonTenant: Why not use BuddyCloud?

   Matt: We didn't include hooks for this in the API
   ...: How much knowledge do we expect users to have

   matt: again, we punted this to the browser
   ... so the google gears plug-in is the editor
   ... of the geolocation APIgoogle gears has a lot of work on this
   ... mozilla's implementation allows users to change this
   ... had some JSON specification
   ... but not baked into API.

   <tinkster> Geolocation API = assumes that the browser knows where
   the user is located, and provides an API to allow Javascript to
   access it.

   SimonTenant: Thanks!

   hhalpin: long term prospects for interoperability, given convergence
   of browser and mobile

   Simon: We have a specification to get location, and another one to
   continously sharing

   <tinkster> To an extent, as they each use WGS84, they're already
   pretty interoperable.

   Simon: There is nothing to prevent Oslo to use geolocation API to
   get the location, and then sharing it via Oslo.

   matt: we could not have said it better
   ... they work well together

   thanks!

   DKA: Thanks for coming on the call

   <matt> Thanks for having us!

   <cperey> are these speakers going to be joining teh SWXG mailing
   list?

   <cperey> the topic of context will be increasingly important

   <matt> [29]Geolocation WG's mailing list

     [29] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-geolocation/

   <hhalpin> we should definitely get someone on that geolocation WG
   list.

   <mischat> bye all

   <Adam> thank you to the speakers!

   <hhalpin> ACTION: DKA to summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation
   in order to spread knowledge of these efforts among W3C members.
   [recorded in
   [30]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action12]

   <trackbot> Created ACTION-58 - Summarize OSLO and geoLocation
   conversation in order to spread knowledge of these efforts among W3C
   members. [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2009-07-22].

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: DKA to summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation in
   order to spread knowledge of these efforts among W3C members.
   [recorded in
   [31]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action12]

   [PENDING] ACTION: adam to write up the boeing use case for
   enterprise social networks [recorded in
   [32]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action05]
   [PENDING] ACTION: danbri to write up widget business story.
   [recorded in
   [33]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action09]
   [PENDING] ACTION: hhalpin to write up the social network data
   exchange story [recorded in
   [34]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action06]
   [PENDING] ACTION: Mischa to describe/implement a report of terms and
   conditions, and how they change between now and the end of the XG.
   [recorded in
   [35]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action03]
   [PENDING] ACTION: tinkster to document danbri's microblogging
   provenance question as a user story. [recorded in
   [36]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action11]
   [PENDING] ACTION: tpa to look for similar use cases list to expand
   ours [recorded in
   [37]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action10]

   [DONE] ACTION: danbri to write up widget business story. [recorded
   in [38]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action07]
   [DONE] ACTION: jsalvachua to write up business use-case with the
   company he's been working with. [recorded in
   [39]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action08]
   [DONE] ACTION: Sören to propose addition to the template for user
   stories for privacy conditions [recorded in
   [40]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/15-swxg-minutes.html#action04]

   [End of minutes]
Received on Wednesday, 15 July 2009 19:13:10 UTC

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