- From: Harry Halpin <hhalpin@ibiblio.org>
- Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:58:39 +0100
- To: public-xg-socialweb@w3.org
HTML: http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html
Attendees
Present:
Somehow Zakim missed these...
Regrets
ditto...
Chair
Harry
Scribe
mattroweshow
Contents
* [4]Topics
* [5]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<PhilA2> E-mail about last week's minutes is at
[6]http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009Jul/0
100.html
[6] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009Jul/0100.html
<PhilA2> Actual minutes are at
[7]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/22-swxg-minutes.html
[7] http://www.w3.org/2009/07/22-swxg-minutes.html
<PhilA2> which reminds me - just checking that RRS Agent and Zakim
are both here...
<hhalpin> Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2009-07-29T13:00-15:00Z
<PhilA2> Meeting: SWXG Weekly Telecon
<hhalpin> RESOLVED: Vacation till August 19th, assuming Nathan Eagle
can be rebooked till then.
hhalpin: provisional vacation will 19th august
<hhalpin> 2. General Organization and Task Forces
<rreck> i thought metrics was a great discussion
<rreck> clean up actions +1
<hhalpin> Which order to do agenda?
<hhalpin> Note, we need someone to summarize last telecon (Gypsii
and cperey on metrics) for final report.
hhalpin: can someone summarise the gypssii session?
<rreck> i dont think im prepared
rreck: had discussions about SNS but now summarise Gypsii
<rreck> basically its a challenge to do so
<hhalpin> ACTION: hhalpin to summarize metrics and gypsii talk
[recorded in
[9]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-61 - Summarize metrics and gypsii talk [on
Harry Halpin - due 2009-08-05].
hhalpin: to summarise gypsii
<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] Mischa to write up Soren and
Jonathan's findings from last telecon for final report. [recorded in
[10]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action02]
<hhalpin> #
<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] DKA to summarize OSLO and geoLocation
conversation in order to spread knowledge of these efforts among W3C
members. [recorded in
[11]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action03]
<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] danbri circulate wookie proposal to
the xg [recorded in
[12]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action04]
<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] Mischa to describe/implement a report
of terms and conditions, and how they change between now and the end
of the XG. [recorded in
[13]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action05]
<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] hhalpin to have
[14]http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf would refer to the new version,
there will be a 'previous version' link to the current one [recorded
in [15]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action06]
[14] http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf
<hhalpin> Dealing with member-only bits on homepage...
<hhalpin> that there's lots of "member-only" sections which Kaliya
felt might alienate people
<melvster> membership list is public and private
<melvster> there's a public version
<hhalpin> oh where's the public version?
<melvster> and a private version with email etc.
<rreck> we can move the participants aspects to be less salient on
the web
<melvster> one sec
<melvster> it's linked from the private version ...
hhalpin: clean up the web page
<hhalpin> ACTION: take action to clean up the web-page and make it
less intimidating to those who aren't members [recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action07]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - take
<rreck> i think pointing out how the public can benefits from our
activities on the web might be more "inviting"
<hhalpin> ACTION: hhalpin take action to clean up the web-page and
make it less intimidating to those who aren't members [recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action08]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-62 - Take action to clean up the web-page
and make it less intimidating to those who aren't members [on Harry
Halpin - due 2009-08-05].
hhalpin: make it less intimidating
<rreck> we have new theme music
<hhalpin> 3. User Stories
hhalpin: go through user stories
<rreck> i actually have a new one i can document
<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] adam to write up the boeing use case
for enterprise social networks [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action09]
<melvster>
[19]http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=43434&public=1
[19] http://www.w3.org/2000/09/dbwg/details?group=43434&public=1
<rreck> actually 2 !
<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] hhalpin to write up the social network
data exchange story [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action10]
<hhalpin> Can you explain them rreck?
<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] tpa to look for similar use cases list
to expand ours [recorded in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action11]
rreck: friend published photos on facebook
<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] tinkster to add user story along lines
of... if you enable import of contacts from other sites, then it
lowers the barrier to entry for new people signing up at your site,
hence get more users, hence get more advertising revenue. [recorded
in [22]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action12]
<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] danbri to write up orkut/i18n/"looking
for" issue [recorded in
[23]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action13]
rreck: spoke to friend to alter photo settings, and didn't agree
with how the pics were used
... supporting SNS, problem faced is more paid propaganda. Matrix to
determine the messages, whether the messages are propaganda or not
<melvster> 50 Cent Army
[24]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party
[24] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Party
<hhalpin> Do you want to take an action to do those?
rreck: chinese govn' pays party personal to put up info
... discrete disagreement by integrating into discussions
<karl> I wonder how chinese gov actions in social networks is any
different than marketing companies, brand management or obama
campaign?
<PhilA2> interesting (and scary)
<MacTed> s/shill for government/shill/ -- "tweet for pay" is a
similar new thing; "payola" among radio DJs is a longer term similar
issue...
rreck: provide a platform without cencorship
they sound really good
<PhilA2> ACTION: rreck to write up use case based on situation
[recorded in
[25]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action14]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-63 - Write up use case based on situation
[on Ronald Reck - due 2009-08-05].
<hhalpin> (chinese?)
<MacTed> "shill case" :-)
sorry closed window by accident
<PhilA2> ACTION: rreck to write up use case based on shill case
[recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action15]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-64 - Write up use case based on shill case
[on Ronald Reck - due 2009-08-05].
<PhilA2> close ACTION-63
<trackbot> ACTION-63 Write up use case based on situation closed
hhalpin: clean up use case docs
<hhalpin> yes?
<hhalpin> I can hear you.
hhalpin: categorise use cases and user stories to make them more
legible
fabgondon speaking?
<AlexPassant> mattroweshow: yes
<rreck> i think maybe just adding attributes to the use cases
fabgandon: very distributing use cases covering different topics
... categorised by business and other topics, some of the scenarios
are not covered by certain fields
hhalpin: group use cases abstractly?
fabgandon: good initial step, some are very technical compared to
others
<hhalpin> Maybe separate the more technical ones from the less
technical ones?
<rreck> im wondering about usecases about situations that ARE being
dealt with in current implementations
fabgandon: some scenarios are just functionalities
<rreck> i think its important to have authors per usecase so there
is someone to talk to about one
hhalpin: separate use cases which are functionalities from others.
use cases have different levels of abstraction. address business
developers and users
... separate use cases into 3/4 buckets
<hhalpin> someone to talk to?
fabgandon: need someone to talk to about a use case
<rreck> i think the use cases should have unique identifiers so that
we can refer to them from other contexts
fabgandon: point of call needed for each use case, in order to get
the details
<AlexPassant> what about 'champions' for each use-case (as done in
the SPARQL WG for new SPARQL features)
what is champions?
are*
hhalpin: need author information next to the use case
<rreck> maybe we can ask author to add themselves to the use case
<rreck> or champions
<rreck> +1 champions
<melvster> +1
hhalpin: get use case doc by fall
<FabGandon> +1 for champion / contact per use case
+1
<rreck> agreed we need a milestone for usecase "completion"
<rreck> i think recommendations in the report should/could be tied
to usecases
<hhalpin> PROPOSAL: Each use-case gets a champion whose job is to
determine the audience and the functionality, as well as fill out
the existing template, and then is needs be rephrase the use-case on
the right level of abstraction. Use-cases without champions will be
dropped.
+1
<rreck> +1
<melvster> +1
<AlexPassant> +1
<MacTed> +1
philA: functionality or requirements?
<rreck> functionality is possibly to technical?
hhalpin: not designing a tech'
<hhalpin> funtionality is too technical?
PhilA1: in use case doc normally have use cases and requirements
<rreck> at a high level people know what they want, not how it can
be accomplished
fabgandon: divide scenario into 2 types: before and after
<rreck> i think as a group we should focus more on what is to be
accomplished
fabgandon: how was the scenario before? what was the requirements?
<rreck> +1
hhalpin: what are the initial requirements? what functionalities
could achieve this?
<rreck> i think the heavily technical aspects alienate less
technical participants
hhalpin: don't specify the tech, but describe what would happen
<hhalpin> Sounds like a huge amount of work..
hhalpin: second doc states the tech
... moving tech bits to another doc
<rreck> especially since technology changes while needs might be
more persistent
<rreck> yes i think it would benefit from a clean up
hhalpin: huge amount of work to produce 3 output docs
<hhalpin> the document is quite long right now...
hhalpin: clean use case doc needed
<hhalpin> and a bit chaotic
<rreck> im overwelmed by looking at the document also
MacTed: need a clear template of what the use cases should look like
<rreck> current state as a word bothers me because sometimes the
current facebook does something i want them to continue to do
hhalpin: need to refactor the template, and ask for use case
champions and rework the use case into the template for the right
level of abstraction. Reduce the use cases to a smaller number
fabgandon: the doc isnt too big, the use cases are
... always look at use cases that are relevant
<rreck> i would prefer not cutting down the number of usecases
<rreck> +1 keep usecase without duplicates
PhilA2: look for duplication of use cases and then merge where
appropriate
hhalpin: need to create a new template for the use cases
... anyone want to put the template out?
<rreck> i can contribute to it
<rreck> but i dont think i can do the whole thing
<rreck> plus im out next week
<hhalpin> Would that work?
<rreck> yes i will make recommendations about how it can be modied
<hhalpin> ACTION: rreck to send some thoughts on new template to be
sent out to listserv [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action16]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-65 - Send some thoughts on new template to
be sent out to listserv [on Ronald Reck - due 2009-08-05].
<rreck> modified rather
<melvster> question: what if more than one person wants to champion
a use case?
<rreck> i think that is imperative
champions is a good idea
<PhilA2> the champion per UC sounds like the way forward to me
<PhilA2> There's a lot of work that needs splitting up
hhalpin: use cases to have champions, any objections?
<hhalpin> RESOLVED: Each use-case gets a champion whose job is to
fit the use-case to the template, as well as fill out the existing
template, and then is needs be rephrase the use-case on the right
level of abstraction. Use-cases without champions will be dropped.
<PhilA2> +1
+1
<melvster> +1
<FabGandon> +1
<MacTed> +1
<hhalpin> 4. Invited Guest Invitations
<rreck> i think XG participants should attend or give regrets
<hhalpin> Any suggestions?
<rreck> invited speakers are good
hhalpin: have the invited speakers been useful?
<hhalpin> Should we keep doing this?
<rreck> +1 continue speakers
PhilA2: good for the group, opens up discussions
hhalpin: tradeoff between speakers and how to move forward
<MacTed> +1 continue
<rreck> i think focus on deliverables is important
hhalpin: last 3/4 meetings were invited speakers, should we have
less speakers and more deliverables?
... may not get work done due to speakers
PhilA2: too time consuming for speakers
<hhalpin> maybe try to restrict invited speakers to 15-20 minutes,
10 minutes questions
hhalpin: what speakers to people want to see first of the ones lined
up?
... can fit in only so many speakers
<rreck> maybe the speakers can be in a different time slot than the
meeting?
hhalpin: send out invitations to get people lined up for september
PhilA2: 2 slots in sept are already taken
hhalpin: won't get to the speakers until nov/dec
<rreck> add time slots
<melvster> Perhaps someone from Google, eg brad fitzpatrick
<hhalpin> yes?
<hhalpin> we can hear you
<rreck> +1 XMPP
<PhilA2> Schedule already has two speakers lined for September (see
[28]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Schedule)
[28] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Schedule)
<hhalpin> OK, let's aim for XMPP and DataPortability in October then
<PhilA2> (it would be hard to univite someone ;-) )
mattrowshow: data portability/xmpp speaker
hhalpin: what is good about the group? what needs to be improved?
<rreck> i think there should be accountability for participation in
the group
hhalpin: abstract the requirements to an empirically gathered matrix
... gauge what needs to be done within this field
<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] danbri to find someone from Opera to
talk Widgets [recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action17]
<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] danbri and karl to contact Evan of
identi.ca over OpenMicroblogging and W3C. [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action18]
<rreck> +1 commitment
hhalpin: require editors for documents
<melvster> I'd be happy to help to try and prepare a document for a
matrix of use case / functionalities vs social nets
hhalpin: what documents do people feel that they could input/commit
to?
<hhalpin> ACTION: [CONTINUES] Renato and DanBri and hhalpin to
schedule DataPortability.org/XMPP [recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action19]
<rreck> +1 melvster
<PhilA2> as ever the mind is willing, it's the time...
<hhalpin> ACTION: [DONE] PhilA to book Dave Raggett to talk about
Context WG [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action20]
i will be willing to help on the matrix document too
<hhalpin> 5. Future Direction of Group Discussion
hhalpin: need to get requirements out of use case doc and then apply
it to the matrix
... this use case requires X, this use case requires Y
<rreck> harry you just said the answer to your own question
hhalpin: columns = network, rows = tech
<rreck> yes
<hhalpin> does that make sense as a way forward?
yep
<melvster> +1 columns for soc nets, rows for use cases or
functionalities
<rreck> you just earned an action item
<hhalpin> :)
hhalpin: rows = functionalities
<hhalpin> It's OK if the matrix is sparsely populated...
<hhalpin> it shows how much work is to be done :)
<rreck> good, it means as a group we are ahead of the curve
+1
<melvster> +1
<rreck> +1
<FabGandon> +1
<MacTed> +1
<rreck> -1
<FabGandon> -1
<melvster> yes ill take an action
<hhalpin> ACTION: melvster to draft columns=network rows=tech matrix
for tech report [recorded in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action21]
<trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - melvster
<hhalpin> Meeting Adjourned
hhalpin: any other topics to discuss?
<rreck> bubye
hhalpin: meeting adjourned
<PhilA2> see everyone after the break
<hhalpin> Thanks everyone!
hhalpin: have draft of use case doc done by 19th august
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: hhalpin take action to clean up the web-page and make
it less intimidating to those who aren't members [recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action08]
[NEW] ACTION: hhalpin to summarize metrics and gypsii talk [recorded
in [35]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: melvster to draft columns=network rows=tech matrix for
tech report [recorded in
[36]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action21]
[NEW] ACTION: rreck to send some thoughts on new template to be sent
out to listserv [recorded in
[37]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action16]
[NEW] ACTION: rreck to write up use case based on situation
[recorded in
[38]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action14]
[NEW] ACTION: rreck to write up use case based on shill case
[recorded in
[39]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action15]
[NEW] ACTION: take action to clean up the web-page and make it less
intimidating to those who aren't members [recorded in
[40]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action07]
[PENDING] ACTION: adam to write up the boeing use case for
enterprise social networks [recorded in
[41]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action09]
[PENDING] ACTION: danbri and karl to contact Evan of identi.ca over
OpenMicroblogging and W3C. [recorded in
[42]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action18]
[PENDING] ACTION: danbri circulate wookie proposal to the xg
[recorded in
[43]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action04]
[PENDING] ACTION: danbri to find someone from Opera to talk Widgets
[recorded in
[44]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action17]
[PENDING] ACTION: danbri to write up orkut/i18n/"looking for" issue
[recorded in
[45]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action13]
[PENDING] ACTION: DKA to summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation
in order to spread knowledge of these efforts among W3C members.
[recorded in
[46]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action03]
[PENDING] ACTION: hhalpin to have [47]http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf
would refer to the new version, there will be a 'previous version'
link to the current one [recorded in
[48]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action06]
[PENDING] ACTION: hhalpin to write up the social network data
exchange story [recorded in
[49]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action10]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mischa to describe/implement a report of terms and
conditions, and how they change between now and the end of the XG.
[recorded in
[50]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action05]
[PENDING] ACTION: Mischa to write up Soren and Jonathan's findings
from last telecon for final report. [recorded in
[51]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action02]
[PENDING] ACTION: Renato and DanBri and hhalpin to schedule
DataPortability.org/XMPP [recorded in
[52]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action19]
[PENDING] ACTION: tinkster to add user story along lines of... if
you enable import of contacts from other sites, then it lowers the
barrier to entry for new people signing up at your site, hence get
more users, hence get more advertising revenue. [recorded in
[53]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action12]
[PENDING] ACTION: tpa to look for similar use cases list to expand
ours [recorded in
[54]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action11]
[47] http://www.w3.org/TR/vcard-rdf
[DONE] ACTION: PhilA to book Dave Raggett to talk about Context WG
[recorded in
[55]http://www.w3.org/2009/07/29-swxg-minutes.html#action20]
Received on Monday, 3 August 2009 17:59:40 UTC