- From: Karen Coyle <kcoyle@kcoyle.net>
- Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 08:05:02 -0700
- To: public-xg-lld@w3.org
MEtadata embedded in HTML makes sense to me for web pages that otherwise would not have any metadata, but library data isn't web pages, it's data from a database. The fact that we display it in web pages is really incidental, and is not the primary way we want to interact in a machine-to-machine application. I can imagine that we might use HTML markup so that the library catalog displays can be easily captured by Zotero or some other browser-based app, but that's just capturing the data as data. I hope we are moving toward a more sophisticated environment where we do more than display and capture metadata from a "flat" page -- that's the promise of LOD, with linking, computability, etc. kc Quoting Neubert Joachim <J.Neubert@zbw.eu>: > Hi Jeff, > > The integration into HTML - is it a bug or a feature? For us as > developers, it may be easier to deal with bulk "pure" RDF/XML (which > has its own atrocities, though) or Ntriples. But when I want to > convince people to provide semantic information, RDFa is invaluable > as it allows to show the immediate value added by this information > to a web page. It is easy to understand, easy to do (on a basic > level, at least) and has the charme of a singele "source" > representation from which other formats can be derived. > > For most datasets, bulk download are valueable, too. The point you > rise - could third party produce bulk downloads - is an interesting > one. If the license allows re-use, it should be no legal problem. > However, the question of keeping such bulk downloads up-to-date > remains, and maybe a central service which crawls the data on a > regualar basis such as Sindice could provide solutions for this. > > Cheers, Joachim > > > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > Von: public-xg-lld-request@w3.org > [mailto:public-xg-lld-request@w3.org] Im Auftrag von Young,Jeff (OR) > Gesendet: Freitag, 17. Juni 2011 04:47 > An: Neubert Joachim; William Waites; Emmanuelle Bermes > Cc: public-xg-lld > Betreff: RE: (regrets and schema.org) > > I think the main threat of schema.org to Library Linked Data is that > Microdata/Microformats (including RDFa) are tightly coupled with > HTML markup. Semantics embedded in HTML may suit the needs of major > search engines since they are crawling HTML documents anyway, but > these formats aren't really suitable for bulk delivery to other > interested parties. In principle, it would be possible for someone > to publish the extracted semantics in bulk form without the HTML > fluff (e.g. as RDF/XML or N-Triples), but what would the rights > implications of doing this be? > > Jeff > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: public-xg-lld-request@w3.org [mailto:public-xg-lld- >> request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Neubert Joachim >> Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2011 5:56 AM >> To: William Waites; Emmanuelle Bermes >> Cc: public-xg-lld >> Subject: AW: (regrets and schema.org) >> >> Hi William, hi Jeff, >> >> Thanks for getting this up so fast! >> >> A seperate section for Microdata, Microformats and RDFa is a very good >> thing, because lots of people will be concerned about making descisions >> on this. (Additionally, it is a good thing to drag RDFa out of the >> Content Management Systems section, since RDFa is not restricted to >> this field. The title and wording of the CMS section could be adapted >> accordingly.) As a further suggestion, the more vocabulary related >> Microdata/RDFa section should possibly precede the more development >> oriented about web application frameworks, cms and web services. >> >> Re. the contents, my feeling is that the situation offers a lot of >> options, which are not yet evaluated. One which perhaps should be >> mentioned in the text is mixing schema.org and genuine RDF >> vocabularies. This should be quite easy in RDFa: >> >> <div typeof="schema:ScholarlyArticle"> >> <h2 property="schema:headline dc:title">Estimating the Effect of >> ...</h2> >> <p property="bibo:abstract">This paper uses the Five-Factor Model >> ...</p> >> <span property="bibo:handle" >> content="http://hdl.handle.net/10419/20518"/> >> ... >> >> This could be one of the possible ways to combine the expressiveness of >> library or other RDF vocabs with the schema.org classes and properties >> in order to optimize search engine visibility, which may be a main >> concern for many organizations. >> >> Since currently no proven best practices for combing the approaches >> exist (and their developement will heavily depend on experience with >> the search engines crawling and ranking mechanisms - which will evolve >> over time, too), we should mark that as an open field - while making a >> strong point that schema.org and RDF(a) should in no way be treated as >> mutually exclusive. >> >> Cheers, Joachim >> >> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: public-xg-lld-request@w3.org [mailto:public-xg-lld-request@w3.org] >> Im Auftrag von William Waites >> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Juni 2011 00:11 >> An: Emmanuelle Bermes >> Cc: public-xg-lld >> Betreff: (regrets and schema.org) Re: Agenda - June 16 2011 - LLD XG >> telecon - 1000 EDT >> >> My apologies, I'll not be able to make the telecon tomorrow. >> >> Jeff and I have corresponded a bit about schema.org, and I've added >> a short section to the Relevant Technologies section: >> >> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Relevant_Technologies#M >> icroformats.2C_Microdata_and_RDFa >> >> The gist is: >> >> - microdata/schema.org is primarily intended for SEO >> - schema.org's vocabulary is heavy in the tourism and commerce areas >> and would need a lot of extension to do libraries >> - there is some level of interoperability with schema.rdfs.org >> - that interoperability only helps a little with interlinking >> different >> library and other datasets >> - it is possible to feed the search engines RDFa >> - it is possible (modulo rumoured bugs) to feed the search engines >> both >> RDFa and microdata from the same page >> - if you can't do RDF and can't do RDFa then some schema.org is >> better >> than nothing >> >> Cheers, >> -w >> >> * [2011-06-15 22:56:20 +0200] Emmanuelle Bermes <manue@figoblog.org> >> écrit: >> >> ] Agenda - June 16 2011 - LLD XG telecon - 1000 EDT >> ] >> ] Time - >> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Telecons#Connection_info >> ] http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference- >> calendar.html#s_4061 >> ] 0700 Seattle - 1000 New York - 1500 London - 1600 Paris - 2300 >> Kuala Lumpur >> ] 2400 Tokyo - 0200 Sydney (next day) >> ] >> ] W3C Library Linked Data Incubator group: >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/ - home >> page >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/ - wiki >> ] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/ - group >> list >> ] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/ - >> community list >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Telecons - >> telecons >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/RunningAgenda - >> "running agenda" >> ] >> ] Chair: Emmanuelle >> ] Scribe: ? >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/ScribeDuty >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/Scribing.html - how to >> ] Regrets: >> ] >> ] >> ====================================================================== >> ] ADMIN >> ] -- Minutes of previous telecons >> ] PROPOSED: To accept >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/06/09-lld- >> minutes.html >> ] >> ] -- Telecons - http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Telecons >> ] 2011-06-23 Antoine (regrets Tom) >> ] 2011-06-30 Emma (regrets Tom) >> ] 2011-07-07 Emma (regrets Tom) >> ] 2011-07-14 NO TELECON >> ] 2011-07-21 Antoine (regrets Emma) >> ] 2011-07-28 NO TELECON >> ] 2011-08-04 Tom >> ] 2011-08-11 NO TELECON >> ] 2011-08-18 Antoine (regrets Emma) >> ] 2011-08-25 final telecon (Tom) >> ] >> ] -- LOD-LAM summit (2011-06-02/03) >> ] >> ] ACTION: Tom to send email to the LOD-LAM participants and create >> ] a final version of the presentation [recorded in >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/26-lld- >> minutes.html#action01] >> ] >> ] >> ====================================================================== >> ] FINAL REPORT >> ] -- >> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportWithTransclusion >> ] -- >> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportReviewerAssignment >> s >> ] >> ] ACTION: Antoine and Emmanuelle to talk about strategies for getting >> ] comments at next call [recorded in >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld- >> minutes.html#action15] >> ] -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg- >> lld/2011May/0051.html >> ] -- posting to a blog ? >> ] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Jun/0017.html >> ] >> ] Tom's proposal for a review strategy: >> ] -- 2011-06-07: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg- >> lld/2011Jun/0002.html >> ] -- 2011-06-09: discussion during call and refinement: >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/06/09-lld- >> minutes.html >> ] >> ] ACTION: Co-chairs to draft message to the community about review >> ] between 16 June and 20 July - post before next call, on 16 June >> ] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/06/09- >> lld-minutes.html#action02] >> ] >> ] ACTION: Jeff and William to propose text on microdata and schema.org >> - >> ] where in the report it should be discussed [recorded in >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/06/09-lld- >> minutes.html#action03] >> ] >> ] --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> ] EXECUTIVE SUMMARY (tbd) >> ] -- http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/ExecutiveSummary >> ] >> ] --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> ] "LIBRARY LINKED DATA": SCOPE OF THIS REPORT (Karen, Peter, Tom, >> Gordon, Jodi) >> ] -- >> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits#.22Library_Linked_Da >> ta.22:_Scope_of_this_report >> ] >> ] ACTION: everyone to read >> ] >> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits#.22Library_Linked_Da >> ta.22:_Scope_of_this_report >> ] and do lightweight review [recorded in >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld- >> minutes.html#action04] >> ] >> ] ACTION: Jodi to send email about Scope statement [recorded in >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld- >> minutes.html#action05] >> ] --DONE: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg- >> lld/2011May/0048.html >> ] >> ] --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> ] BENEFITS OF LINKED DATA (Ed, Emmanuelle, Ross) >> ] -- http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits >> ] >> ] ACTION: Karen to edit the Benefits section [recorded in >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/26-lld- >> minutes.html#action06] >> ] -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg- >> lld/2011May/0080.html >> ] >> ] ACTION: Tom to ask Hideaki or Dickson to review >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Benefits [recorded in >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld- >> minutes.html#action06] >> ] >> ] --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> ] AVAILABLE VOCABULARIES AND DATASETS (Antoine, Jeff, Marcia, William) >> ] -- >> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Vocabularies_Datasets_S >> ection >> ] >> ] --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> ] RELEVANT TECHNOLOGIES (Jeff) >> ] -- >> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_Relevant_Technologies >> ] >> ] ACTION: Gordon to review Relevant Technologies [recorded in >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/06/09-lld- >> minutes.html#action04] >> ] >> ] --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> ] IMPLEMENTATION CHALLENGES AND BARRIERS TO ADOPTION (Karen, Peter, >> Tom, >> ] Gordon, Jodi) >> ] -- http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_issues_page >> ] >> ] ACTION: Gordon and Karen to consider relation between problems and >> ] limitation section and the library resource wiki page. [recorded in >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/03/24-lld- >> minutes.html#action01] >> ] -- >> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_standards_and_linked_ >> data >> ] -- http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Library_Data_Resources >> ] >> ] --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> - >> ] RECOMMENDATIONS AND NEXT STEPS (Karen, Peter, Tom, Gordon, Jodi) >> ] -- >> http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_recommendations_page >> ] >> ] ACTION: Jeff to review >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Draft_recommendations_page >> ] for next week [recorded in >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld- >> minutes.html#action12] >> ] -- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-lld/2011May/0052.html >> ] >> ] ACTION: Tom to ask Dickson and Guenther if they could contribute >> ] curriculum issues to the Recommendations Section [recorded in >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19-lld- >> minutes.html#action13] >> ] >> ] >> ====================================================================== >> ] LIBRARY LINKED DATA: VOCABULARIES AND DATASETS - SEPARATE DELIVERABLE >> ] (Antoine, Jeff, Marcia, William) >> ] -- http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/Vocabulary_and_Dataset >> ] Two Clouds: Metadata Element Sets and Datasets/Value Vocabularies >> ] >> ] >> ====================================================================== >> ] USE CASES (Daniel) - SEPARATE DELIVERABLE >> ] -- http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCaseReport >> ] >> ] ACTION: Jodi to review >> ] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/UseCaseReport for next week >> ] [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/05/19- >> lld-minutes.html#action14] >> ] >> ] >> ====================================================================== >> ] TRANSITION TO W3C COMMUNITY GROUP >> ] -- http://www.w3.org/QA/2011/04/coming_soon_w3c_community_grou.html >> ] See also http://www.w3.org/2010/12/community/final >> ] >> ] 2011-05-12: Should inform W3C of intent to transition by 1 August for >> ] transition on 1 September. >> ] >> ] >> ====================================================================== >> ] AOB >> ] >> >> -- >> William Waites <mailto:ww@styx.org> >> http://river.styx.org/ww/ <sip:ww@styx.org> >> F4B3 39BF E775 CF42 0BAB 3DF0 BE40 A6DF B06F FD45 >> >> > > > > > -- Karen Coyle kcoyle@kcoyle.net http://kcoyle.net ph: 1-510-540-7596 m: 1-510-435-8234 skype: kcoylenet
Received on Friday, 17 June 2011 15:05:32 UTC