- From: Uldis Bojars <captsolo@gmail.com>
- Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 22:03:20 +0200
- To: public-xg-lld <public-xg-lld@w3.org>
Hi,
The minutes of our today's call are at
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/17-lld-minutes.html
A text version follows.
Uldis
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[1]W3C
[1] http://www.w3.org/
LLD XG
17 Feb 2011
[2]Agenda
[2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-lld/2011Feb/0035.html
See also: [3]IRC log
[3] http://www.w3.org/2011/02/17-lld-irc
Attendees
Present
Jodi, uldis, TomB, kai, kcoyle, antoine_, jeff_, marcia?,
kefo, edsu, rsinger, pmurray, AlexanderH, jneubert, Jon,
digikim, Felix, michaelp
Regrets
Emmanuelle, Monica, Gordon, Ray
Chair
Tom
Scribe
uldis
Contents
* [4]Topics
1. [5]LOD-LAM Summit: http://lod-lam.net/ - Guest: Jon Voss
2. [6]ADMIN
3. [7]USE CASE CLUSTERS
4. [8]FINAL REPORT DRAFT
5. [9]FINAL REPORT TOPICS
* [10]Summary of Action Items
_________________________________________________________
<TomB> Previous:
[11]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minu
tes.html
[11] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minutes.html
joining in a minute
<jodi> wow, today I am the first participant :)
<TomB> Scribe: uldis
<TomB> Scribenick: uldis
LOD-LAM Summit: [12]http://lod-lam.net/ - Guest: Jon Voss
[12] http://lod-lam.net/
Jon: will tell about the LOD-LAM summit. how it came about, goals.
... was working on Civil War data. were pitching it as LOD for
Humanities.
... catch-22: funding vs use cases
... reviewers were split in opinion. needed to define issues, define
what is LOD (for the founders)
<TomB> Jon: We needed to make the case to our funders.
Jon: put together a proposal. ... fundation joined. travel support,
international participants.
... hope to have as many as 75 people attending
... goals: get all together, use open-space format (BarCamp),
participants make own agenda
... people experts in field, passionated. from many areas.
... questions?
kcoyle: what can we do to help?
Jon: main thing is spreading the word. already had 56 applicants.
great diversity.
... also policymakers, who can open the doors to have datasets
available
TomB: you mentioned looking for use cases. that's what LDD XG has
been doing.
... re benefits of using linked data, problems, bottlenecks
... the timing of the summit is when our group will have published
its report
Jon: that's perfect. we're trying to get a better idea of what the
participants have to bring to the meeting.
antoine_: wondering if we could focus discussion on issues that LLD
XG would have identified as open problems
Jon: that's something we can do at the summit.
... interested in going from talking re standards to implementing
them as use cases
... another part of summit is to invite funders to talk re what they
want to see
<Zakim> edsu, you wanted to ask about openness and linked data
edsu: could you comment re role of openness in the meeting?
... LOD combines 2 things: linked data pattern + open access to data
... how important is the openness?
Jon: in order to have LOD, have to have open data first
... on the organizing committee people from CC, EFF, MIT -- who are
working on openness
... hope to have legal experts, policy makers present. to set
precedents for people to release data, have it open and sharable
TomB: could you comment re role of the Internet Archive & the
preservation aspect of linked data
Jon: IA is the host for this. working very closely together. they
are loooking very closely at linked data.
<edsu> antoine_: nice, i heard about some of that in
[13]http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:GLAMWIKI_UK_Fri_26_11.45_BP_-_
Jill_Cousins.ogg
[13] http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:GLAMWIKI_UK_Fri_26_11.45_BP_-_Jill_Cousins.ogg
Jon: they're very interested in being involved
TomB: more questions? no. thanks to Jon for joining us.
<marcia> thanks to Jon
ADMIN
RESOLUTION: to accept
[14]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minu
tes.html
[14] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minutes.html
TomB: checking w W3C re reserving Zakim at a very late hour
(midnight)
<jodi> midnight EST is fine here in Ireland! :)
TomB: for having a meeting dedicated to Asia-Pacific time zone
USE CASE CLUSTERS
jeff_: ready to let people comment re authority data
<antoine_> ACTION: Jeff and Alexander to curate authority data
cluster for end of December [recorded in
[15]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
tes.html#action06] [DONE]
[15] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action06
jodi: social uses cluster: got new use cases
... have other ideas from JISC, etc that we want to look at
<antoine_> ACTION: Uldis and Jodi to create social uses cluster
[recorded in
[16]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minu
tes.html#action03] [CONTINUES]
[16] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minutes.html#action03
kcoyle: can' t exactly say where are re collection cluster
<scribe> ACTION: GordonD and Karen to curate collection cluster
[recorded in
[17]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
tes.html#action11] [DONE]
[17] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minutes.html#action11
<jodi> yeah! :)
kevin: looking at combining documents. need another week to see
which clusters have webservice related things
<antoine_> ACTION: Kevin and Joachim to review content of existing
clusters to see where the web service dimension could be
strengthened. [recorded in
[18]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minu
tes.html#action13] [CONTINUES]
[18] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minutes.html#action13
FINAL REPORT DRAFT
TomB: we have a draft report. Jodi created draft with transclusions.
<jodi> It is here:
[19]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportWithTranscl
usion
[19] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReportWithTransclusion
TomB: lots of sections in use case clusters that need to be
consolidated into sections we haven't started yet
<scribe> ACTION: Antoine, Emma, TomB to send a call for reviewers to
the list [recorded in
[20]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minu
tes.html#action14] [DONE]
[20] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minutes.html#action14
<scribe> ACTION: Jodi to replace placeholders in
[21]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport with
transclusion code [recorded in
[22]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minu
tes.html#action04] [DONE]
[21] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport
[22] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minutes.html#action04
FINAL REPORT TOPICS
TomB: propose to add names to these 8 topics
... 1) What to do with the use cases themselves?
... cluster texts include scenarious = intermediate steps. what
should we do with them. put in the final report (e.g. appendix)
... thinking re appendix w one-line summary of use cases and bullet
points from scenarios
... q: is this a good idea? 'd like someone to volunteer.
kcoyle: sent an email before meeting. use cases should not be in the
document. we are not certain they cover important LOD issues
... we need to discuss those issues - the fact lib cataloging uses
text, net data. large amount of this info already out there. no
support from big institutions.
TomB: how should we handle use cases? agree they are not part of the
report itself.
... or are you saying use cases are deficient?
<antoine_> @kcoyle: isn't this issue related to "problems and
limitations"?
kcoyle: an appendix listing use cases ++
... we must extract info from them to put in the report. what the
use cases tell us about the environment
... report has to extract those important issues
... the appendix = some info we drew our conclusions from
TomB: task is not difficult. to look at how to make an appendix.
antoine_: some things can be independent from use cases
kcoyle: don't know. we have not had a discussion re the big issues.
<jodi> I think we know a lot about the issues, even though we
haven't formally discussed
kcoyle: what is group's thinking re this?
<jodi> (this was also an interesting part from the youtube video Tom
sent yesterday -- a good discussion of issues)
antoine_: we have a placeholder in the report re this
<Zakim> edsu, you wanted to ask about editors for the document
<jodi> browseability and visualization, particularly, are issues we
may not have much discussed
edsu: agree w kcoyle. we have not talked re big issues.
... have concerns re concentrating only on use cases.
<jodi> +1 to whole-document editors
edsu: need to identify editors for the [whole] document. they can
then propose how they want to see the report.
... legacy data is one of important topics, as kcoyle wrote
<antoine_> isn't what ed is talking about finding editors for
[23]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport#Problems_a
nd_limitations , specifically?
[23] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport#Problems_and_limitations
<jodi> TomB++ : complexity of the whole is making it hard to
understand what's important
<antoine_> @TomB: can we start with point #5? Seems popular :-)
<jodi> @antoine: what is point #5?
<kcoyle> it's problems and limitation
TomB: 1) was re moving details of use cases into an appendix. to
help us to focus on big issues.
<kcoyle> and i do think we need to start there
TomB: 5) Getting a start on Problems and Limitations (section 1.5)
<jodi> ah, points from the review list. Thanks! :)
TomB: need someone to read problems / limitations part of use cases
and propose how to merge them
<kcoyle> i don't think this is a one-person task. i think it's a
task for the whole group
<jodi> I think there's already a good start on this, from what Karen
did with summarizing the problems/limitations from the (archives?)
cluster.
TomB: trying to break up tasks. anything we don't need in the final
report can be moved to a "parking lot".
... aim to have a document that has the analytical parts, not the
details
<jodi> I can read problems/limitations of the use cases and see what
the common ones are. I don't know about 'proposing how to merge
them'
TomB: volunteers?
... proposed that chairs assign volunteers.
kcoyle: you 're trying to work from details up
... some of use willing to work from top (main issues) down
<marcia> The previous 'dimensions' page might be a good way to look
at the limitations and problems.
kcoyle: hard to work from details because i don't understand the
context
... you are starting with details.
<edsu> +1
kcoyle: why don't we start w the report, add details as needed
... not happy with the existing document.
... start with thinking re what we want to have in the report
... before starting writing
<Zakim> edsu, you wanted to ask about editors
edsu: on last call i was against the transclusion. TomB, kcoyle both
right. a question of a work approach.
... would like to have people own an action to write this document
... and for them to take 1st pass at writing something
... then iterate
... and bring in detailed content later.
... starting from individual pieces and trying to merge them
together can make the report fragmentary
TomB: these tasks were on assumption of consensus re starting to
work on the long document
... happy to start w a short document and add things in
... could ask people to read all manuscripts, extract key ideas
(benefits, limitations, relevant technologies)
... willing to act as an editor for the document as a whole
... but it's a big task.
<kcoyle> we all have to generate ideas -- the group
TomB: who will generate ideas for big picture items?
... need people to step up
jodi: re approaches top-down vs bottom-up
... was horrified re results of transclusion. a lot of information
there. more info in people's heads.
... by stripping it down we may loose parts that are interesting,
important
... can we work from both directions at once?
... need a very rough draft at the executive summary
... a good place to start. each has some main messages in mind.
... not ignore what we have, but jumpstart discussion by putting
together some text
<kefo> jodi++ : begin with a type of lengthy abstract. outline base
points of longer report, develop more detailed document from the
executive report
<TomB> a?
jodi: must have the grand message from the group
<Zakim> TomB, you wanted to clarify that "topic curators" should not
limit themselves to things they read in the raw draft
<edsu> +1 for starting w/ executive summary, and then see what else
is needed
TomB: starting with the executive summary = interesting idea
<kcoyle> or at least a list of issues
<jodi> +1 for getting text we can react to
TomB: we need a text that we can react to
<jodi> (maybe that's the problem with the curated use cases --
there's no "argument" being made, just description)
TomB: would like people to see take ownership of topics (e.g. 5)
problems and limitations)
... propose to learn from what we have, but also to put down things
we have in our head
... writing exec summary as a first step can be useful (though
usually done last)
kcoyle: propose all to put main 5 issues into email
<edsu> kcoyle: love that idea
kcoyle: then discuss those groups of issues and see where we go from
that
<antoine_> Issues in the line of
[24]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/TopicsDiscussed ??
[24] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/TopicsDiscussed
<jodi> kcoyle: great idea!
kcoyle: use email for discussion. start without structure.
... just list 5 main things we have seen come out from our work
TomB: propose distinction b/w things we see as most important and
things [maybe not most important] that are of concern to us
... lot of richness may come from ideas which are not most important
but which we find a interesting
... are any of the 8 points that we can salvage and start with the
brainstorming approach?
... opinions?
<antoine_> Is there objection on the other points?
TomB: .silence.
<jodi> +1 to calling on people :)
<rsinger> why?
<rsinger> can we assume there's no objection?
TomB: jodi?
<rsinger> or ambivalence?
<TomB> Uldis: +1 brainstorming approach
jodi: we could salvage some points, but there's something vivid and
lively re brainstorming
TomB: this could be a good way to get to the next step
... what all thing re proposed brainstorming approach?
... kai +1
<marcia> yes
marcia: +1
antoine_: +1 we try it. still think we must consider the other
points.
<kcoyle> +1
antoine_: look at relevant technologies and other things we don't
need extensive brainstorming on
<jodi> +1 to looking at a few other points as well
<kcoyle> we could identify parts that we could do now
TomB: agree re that
jeff_: agree re starting from executive summary as a start
kefo: along the way we will identify problems and limitations.
things like 4) re analysis of library standards will find natural
home.
edsu: +1
rsinger: like the idea. but how are we gonna manage 100+ points
people will come up.
... especially in email.
<jodi> agree that management of this is challenging -- but I think
that makes this more useful rather than less
<jodi> kcoyle++
TomB: can cluster them quickly in email.
<kefo> I think broad topics will rise to the top
kcoyle offered to organize them
pmurray: nothing to add
AlexanderH: concern re management of collected info
jneubert: +1
digikim: ...
fsasaki: ...
<digikim> ah sorry - doing n+2 other things while listening
<kcoyle> I will start the email so there is something to follow-up
on
<michaelp> I would urge people to look at topic list and minutes of
Pittsburgh for ideas/preparation.
<kcoyle> thanks, mp
<edsu> kcoyle++
TomB: ACTION: everyone (on the call and off) to send email message
in the next week about important issue
... kcoyle offered to kick it off
<jodi> link to topic list and minutes for Pittsburgh:
[25]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F_Pittsburgh
[25] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/F2F_Pittsburgh
<kcoyle> put on our thinking caps
<kefo> bye
<jodi> thanks, this was quite useful!
<michaelp> I think Pittsburgh had some great big picture
discussions,
<TomB> [adjourned]
<scribe> ACTION: everyone (on the call and off) to send email
message in the next week re brainstorming on important issues
[recorded in
[26]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/17-lld-minu
tes.html#action08]
Summary of Action Items
[NEW] ACTION: everyone (on the call and off) to send email message
in the next week re brainstorming on important issues [recorded in
[27]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/17-lld-minu
tes.html#action08]
[PENDING] ACTION: Kevin and Joachim to review content of existing
clusters to see where the web service dimension could be
strengthened. [recorded in
[28]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minu
tes.html#action13]
[PENDING] ACTION: Uldis and Jodi to create social uses cluster
[recorded in
[29]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minu
tes.html#action03]
[28] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minutes.html#action13
[29] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/12/16-lld-minutes.html#action03
[DONE] ACTION: Antoine, Emma, TomB to send a call for reviewers to
the list [recorded in
[30]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minu
tes.html#action14]
[DONE] ACTION: GordonD and Karen to curate collection cluster
[recorded in
[31]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minu
tes.html#action11]
[DONE] ACTION: Jeff and Alexander to curate authority data cluster
for end of December [recorded in
[32]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minu
tes.html#action06]
[DONE] ACTION: Jodi to replace placeholders in
[33]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport with
transclusion code [recorded in
[34]http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minu
tes.html#action04]
[30] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minutes.html#action14
[31] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/01/06-lld-minutes.html#action11
[32] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2010/10/23-lld-minutes.html#action06
[33] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/wiki/DraftReport
[34] http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/lld/minutes/2011/02/10-lld-minutes.html#action04
[End of minutes]
_________________________________________________________
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Received on Thursday, 17 February 2011 20:03:53 UTC