Re: Linked Data Shapes, Forms and Footprints

Dear Owen & public-xformsusers,



There is a discussion on "End User" at architecture-discuss@ietf.org to
which I have just sent paragraphs about "networks of interests of users'
and architects'"


https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/architecture-discuss/016_2Hk3xVCIT7o3p9gqLCERK6U

Regard,
Guntur Wiseno Putra

Pada Senin, 09 Desember 2019, Guntur Wiseno Putra <gsenopu@gmail.com>
menulis:

>
> Dear Owen & public-xformsusers,
>
> As it was told that XForms is an XML-based programming languages I came to
> pages on XML: It brought me to T. Bernets-Lee collection of writings on
> Design Issue. Interestingly I find a page recently written by Berners-Lee
> in 2019
> (https://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Footprints.html) about technologies to
> help with building applications among which were languages of forms. And we
> are here in public-xformusers@w3.org.
>
> Together with another page opened written older than the previous one by
> Berners-Lee explaining about "evolvability" (https://www.w3.org/
> DesignIssues/Evolution.html), my readings on IETF (www.ietf.org and its
> collaborators such as IRTF and IAB), the website on STRATML with its
> slogan mentioning "Intentions", "Networks Society" (Manuel Castell*) and
> "Networks of Laguage" (J. Francois Lyotard, "The Postmodern Condition"),
> the document on technologies to help with building apps (Berners-Lee, 2019)
> brought me to such a draft of minds below --with an emphasis on "networks
> of applications supported by languages":
>
>
> For the Internet and the Web, thus networks of computer-based
> communications and informations --at least considering the Web goals of
> interoperbility and evolvability/evolution if they are still so while if it
> has not been changed evolution is a main concern of Internet engineers--,
> there would supposedly be networks of applications supported by languages:
> and there would also be those of intentions/interests of users' and
> architects'... Is'nt it so...?
>
> This is why the message relates with issues maintained by public-
> informationarchitecture@w3.org and public-appsdesignlab@w3.org beside
> public-xformsusers@w3.org...
>
>
>
>
> Note:
> * It is a long web address, then I separate it:
> Manuel Castell, "Informationalism, Technology and Network Society"
> https://annenberg.usc.edu/sites/default/files/2015/04/
> 28/Informationalism%2C%20Networks%20and%20the%20Network%20Society.pdf
>
>
>
> Regard,
> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>
>
>
>
> Pada Senin, 09 Desember 2019, Owen Ambur <Owen.Ambur@verizon.net> menulis:
>
>> Guntur, I'm not sure I understand your question or whether anyone else on
>> the listserv is interested in seeing us continue this dialog.
>>
>> However, with regard to the KISS principle noted in one of the
>> references you cited <https://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Principles.html>,
>> this famous admonition comes to mind:  https://quoteinvestigator.com/
>> 2011/05/13/einstein-simple/
>>
>> For business quality records, it is the underlying requirements that
>> should take precedence, not the desire to make it easy for techies to
>> manipulate those records via software programming code.  Indeed, to some
>> degree, the reverse is true.  Once they have been completed and used in
>> business transactions, records should be immutable.  That's why Blockchain
>> has garnered so much attention.  See the last paragraph at
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine-readable_document
>>
>> With reference to your message immediately below, my interest focuses on
>> networks of *human beings* -- based upon shared values supported by
>> common and complementary objectives -- and NOT on "networks of
>> computer-based communications and information" per se.  Technology networks
>> are means to ends and not ends unto themselves.  The architects of those
>> networks should keep that in mind, which prompts consciousness of this
>> infamous saying:  https://idioms.thefreedictiona
>> ry.com/the+inmates+are+running+the+asylum
>>
>> See also http://stratml.us/carmel/iso/part2/DCMOwStyle.xml
>> "Applications are optional visitors to the data."
>> Owen
>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/owenambur/
>>
>>
>> On 12/8/2019 12:40 AM, Guntur Wiseno Putra wrote:
>>
>> Dear Owen & public-xformsusers,
>>
>> For the Internet and the Web, thus networks of computer-based
>> communications and informations --at least considering the Web goals of
>> interoperbility and evolvability/evolution if they are still so while if it
>> has not been changed evolution is a main concern of Internet engineers--,
>> there would supposedly be networks of applications supported by languages:
>> and there would also be those of intentions/interests of users' and
>> architects'... Is'nt it so...?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Regard,
>> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>
>> Pada Sabtu, 07 Desember 2019, Owen Ambur <Owen.Ambur@verizon.net>
>> menulis:
>>
>>> This is a bit beyond my level of technical expertise but here are a
>>> couple passages on which I do have a point of view:
>>>
>>> "... how do we build systems in which users and apps are easily allowed
>>> to express useful, helpful things? "
>>>
>>> To me, "useful, helpful" means enabling us to more easily and
>>> effectively accomplish our objectives.  The first step is to think clearly
>>> about what we want to accomplish and the second is to document our
>>> long-term goals and near-term objectives -- preferably in an open,
>>> standard, machine-readable format (especially if we need to engage others
>>> in order to achieve them).  At that point, AI and value-added services can
>>> be applied to identify the necessary inputs and processing capabilities,
>>> thereby revolutionizing the ridiculously inefficient advertising and
>>> marketing paradigm.
>>>
>>> Joe Carmel initially developed these XForms to enable the documentation
>>> of goals, objectives, and stakeholders in StratML format:
>>> http://stratml.us/forms/Part1Form.xml & http://stratml.us/forms/Part2F
>>> orm.xml  Jorge Sanchez is working on a wizard version at
>>> http://stratml.us/vionta/forms/wizard/0_mainform.xml
>>>
>>> "The problem of where to store new data"
>>>
>>> Why not open, machine-readable documents
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine-readable_document>, in which
>>> both the semantics as well as the structure have been well specified?
>>>
>>> At scale (e.g., beyond Dunbar's Number
>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunbar%27s_number>), accountability
>>> requires good, complete, and reliable records.  Triples, graphs, and
>>> microcode simply will not suffice for business-quality information.  See
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_corners_(law)
>>>
>>> Owen
>>> On 12/7/2019 9:53 AM, Guntur Wiseno Putra wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Steven & public-xformsusers,
>>>
>>> Considering its date of writing (2019/04/26) and last change
>>> (2019/07/12): if I have not been missing since then, the document has not
>>> been this list since then...
>>>
>>> Berner-Lee, T, "Linked Data Shapes, Forms, and Footprints"
>>>
>>> It discuss technologies to help with building apps on top of data:
>>> shapes, forms, and footprints...
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/Footprints.html
>>>
>>> Regard,
>>> Guntur Wiseno Putra
>>>
>>>