RE: Issue 6404 - proposal

I think "no dialect" should be a shorthand for something and that 
'something' needs to be some dialect.  We can change it from the 'mex' 
dialect to something else, but since we're talking about a bootstrapping 
situation where we (as a client) are talking to a bit of an unknown entity 
(which is why we're using mex in the first place), having the value of "no 
dialect" be something random doesn't sound like an interoperable solution 
- we'd be back to the 'whateva' case - which we determined is pretty 
useless.  I don't see any reason not to have "no dialect" == "the mex 
dialect" and have the mex dialect mean "everything I'm allowed to see".

thanks
-Doug
______________________________________________________
STSM |  Standards Architect  |  IBM Software Group
(919) 254-6905  |  IBM 444-6905  |  dug@us.ibm.com



Geoff Bullen <Geoff.Bullen@microsoft.com> 
Sent by: public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org
02/16/2009 05:26 PM

To
Doug Davis/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS
cc
"public-ws-resource-access@w3.org" <public-ws-resource-access@w3.org>, 
"public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org" 
<public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org>
Subject
RE: Issue 6404 - proposal






Hi Doug,
Our intent is slightly different here.  We would prefer that returning 
metadata associated with the dialect:
 
[Body]/mex:GetMetadata/mex:Dialect=http://www.w3.org/2009/02/ws-mex
 
remain consistent and ONLY ever return metadata associated with dialects 
defined in the MEX specification.
 
The changes we suggest would only apply to the default case where no 
dialect is specified.
In this case it would normally return the same as above, unless it has 
been redefined by a profile to return something else, including Profile 
specific metadata dialects.
 
Does that makes sense?
--Geoff
 
 
From: Doug Davis [mailto:dug@us.ibm.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 11:48 AM
To: Geoff Bullen
Cc: public-ws-resource-access@w3.org; 
public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org
Subject: RE: Issue 6404 - proposal
 

Geoff, 
  Actually, the "default value" doesn't change - its the meaning of the 
MEX dialect, no? 
So, we really should be tweaking the other paragraph - the one starting 
with "barring...".  And doesn't that cover the possibility of someone else 
further constraining it? 

thanks
-Doug
______________________________________________________
STSM |  Standards Architect  |  IBM Software Group
(919) 254-6905  |  IBM 444-6905  |  dug@us.ibm.com 


Geoff Bullen <Geoff.Bullen@microsoft.com> 
Sent by: public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org 
02/10/2009 02:41 PM 


To
Doug Davis/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS, "public-ws-resource-access@w3.org" 
<public-ws-resource-access@w3.org> 
cc

Subject
RE: Issue 6404 - proposal
 








Doug, 
It does not appear that the wording: 
  
?When this element is not present, the implied value is the MEX dialect.? 
  
correctly expresses the sentiment that we agreed too earlier.  Can we 
suggest using something more like: 
  
?When this element is not present, the implied value is the MEX dialect. 
However, the actual value may be defined by communities within the context 
of particular application domains and could include application specific 
metadata.? 
  
--Geoff 
  
  
From: public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org 
[mailto:public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org] On Behalf Of Doug Davis
Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 5:49 PM
To: public-ws-resource-access@w3.org
Subject: Re: Issue 6404 - proposal 
  

Resending since the html doesn't show up in the archives. 

thanks
-Doug
______________________________________________________
STSM |  Standards Architect  |  IBM Software Group
(919) 254-6905  |  IBM 444-6905  |  dug@us.ibm.com 

__________________ 

With no more chatter on this one... here's my proposal: 

Define the absence of a Dialect to mean the MEX dialect - something like: 
[Body]/mex:GetMetadata/mex:Dialect 
     When this element is present, the response MUST include only Metadata 
Sections with the indicated dialect; if the receiver does not have any 
Metadata Sections of the indicated dialect, the response MUST include zero 
Metadata Sections. When this element is not present, the implied value is 
the MEX dialect.   
<delete> there is no implied value and so the response may include 
Metadata Sections with any dialect. </delete> 

And define the MEX dialect - add the following after the above text: 
[Body]/mex:GetMetadata/mex:Dialect="http://www.w3.org/2009/02/ws-mex" 
     Barring some additional constraints, not defined by this 
specification, specifying the MEX dialect in a GetMetadata request message 
means that the service SHOULD return all available metadata formats that 
this client is allowed to retrieve. 

thanks
-Doug
______________________________________________________
STSM |  Standards Architect  |  IBM Software Group
(919) 254-6905  |  IBM 444-6905  |  dug@us.ibm.com 

Doug Davis/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS 
Sent by: public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org 
01/29/2009 10:11 PM 
 


To
Geoff Bullen <Geoff.Bullen@microsoft.com> 
cc
"public-ws-resource-access@w3.org" <public-ws-resource-access@w3.org>, 
public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org 
Subject
Re: Issue 6404 - use of "whatever"

 
 










Along those line, it would seem that saying something like "barring some 
negotiation, the absence of a Dialect value is equivalent tousing  the MEX 
dialect".  Gives the freedom for someone to profile it later - but 
otherwise we make sure "null" is well defined. 

thanks
-Doug
______________________________________________________
STSM |  Standards Architect  |  IBM Software Group
(919) 254-6905  |  IBM 444-6905  |  dug@us.ibm.com 

Geoff Bullen <Geoff.Bullen@microsoft.com> 
Sent by: public-ws-resource-access-request@w3.org 
01/29/2009 09:06 PM 
 
 


To
"public-ws-resource-access@w3.org" <public-ws-resource-access@w3.org> 
cc

Subject
Issue 6404 - use of "whatever"

 
 










This issue is about defining the MEX dialect and defining what gets 
returned. 

http://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=6404 

In particular, I was asked to provide an example of why it might be 
useful, in the case where no dialect is specified in the GetMetadata 
request, for the service itself to be able to decide what it would return 
(the so-called ?whatever? case).  The other option would be for this case 
to return all MEX sections. 

The best example I can provide for the ?whatever? case is this: 

If the MEX specification gets ?profiled? for a specific purpose, it would 
be very useful to allow the profile to be able to specify what metadata is 
to be returned in this default case (especially the non-MEX defined 
metadata sections).  If you do not do this then each profile would have to 
define some separate dialect to mean ?give me all the metadata within my 
profile?.  Thus the default case gives you an over-loadable definition of 
?all? or perhaps ?normal?, which can include non-MEX defined sections. 

In a typical profiled case: 
Nothing = ?return all metadata within my profile? 
MEX = ?return all MEX dialects? 

If it is not a profiled implementation, the spec could be recommend that 
the implementation return: 
Nothing = MEX = ?return all MEX dialects?