- From: Yaron Y. Goland <ygoland@bea.com>
- Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 15:43:48 -0700
- To: "Steve Ross-Talbot" <steve@enigmatec.net>, <public-ws-chor@w3.org>
I like Steve's proposed mission statement but I would like to suggest some wordsmithing: "The mission of the W3C Web Services Choreography working group is to define a language complementary to WSDL 1.2 * that enables the description of the global view of a business process's message choreography * such that it is possible to automatically validate a participant's compliance with the message choreography required of their roles and responsibilities in the business process via automated observation of their messaging behavior." In editing the mission statement I am only aware of having made three substantive changes from the original: I specified WSDL 1.2 rather than just WSDL I tried to clarify what the terms automate and validate meant I removed the reference to long/short live processes The term 'compose' in the focus statement is causing me some discomfort. In the BPEL sense 'composing a web service' means creating a new web service by gluing together existing web services. The new web service will have its own WSDL and so far as anyone interacting with it need be concerned it's a web service like any other. I don't believe that use case should be in scope for WS-Chor. While I could readily imagine WS-Chor providing a definition of the message choreography used to enable the composed web service this is a far cry from defining the actual logic needed to make the composed webservice operate. That is a job for a programming language like BPEL. I would be comfortable seeing the focus section removed entirely. Just my 2 euros, Yaron > -----Original Message----- > From: public-ws-chor-request@w3.org > [mailto:public-ws-chor-request@w3.org]On Behalf Of Steve Ross-Talbot > Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 10:47 AM > To: public-ws-chor@w3.org > Subject: Re: Straw-man Proposal for our mission statement > > > > Having seen Kick and Daniel's contributions and other comments, how > does this sound: > > Mission Statement > The mission of the W3C Web Services Choreography working group is to > define a language complementary to WSDL such that a common view (global > view) of business process interactions where roles and responsibilities > are clearly defined in a way that is automatable for each participant, > machine readable and in a manner whereby each participants involvement > can be validated and such that the life cycle of those interactions may > be short and/or long lived. > > Focus > Our focus will be that part of interaction that is externally visible > as opposed to any internal private behaviour. Our aim is to capture > this externally visible behaviour and to provide the means to compose > web services or support the composition of new web services from > existing web services such that these services can also provide an > externally visible behavioural description, can participate in further > composition and be validated against any subsequent interaction. > > Approach > The approach that we intend to take is based on the capture of use > cases reflecting our mission statement and our focus in parallel with > CSF analysis to underpin the continued and future business relevance > of our efforts. > > Thanks to Daniel and Nick upon who's contributions I have drawn. > > Cheers > > Steve T > > > On Friday, May 9, 2003, at 06:00 pm, Daniel_Austin@grainger.com wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > Here is a proposed mission statement for our working group. This > > is > > intended as a device to initiate discussion within the group. Our > > mission > > statement is the first step toward our CSF analysis. > > > > Please keep in mind that this statement is subject to change > > based on > > your input - it is by no means final or even close to what we will end > > up > > with. It's only Daniel's $0.02. > > > > Let's start this conversation by looking at your Charter [1]. The > > most relevant text I could find was this: > > > > <our charter wording="creative-ambiguity-style> > > The Web Services Choreography Working Group...is chartered to create > > the > > definition of a choreography, language(s) for describing a > > choreography, as > > well as the rules for composition of, and interaction among, such > > choreographed Web services. > > </our charter> > > > > At first blush, we might think that this is a good candidate for > > a > > mission statement. Modify the working a little and go...right? > > Unfortunately, I don't think so, for these three reasons: > > a) The text above makes a serious mistake in its direction to the > > group. > > The problem is what I call "presupposing the solution" and it's very > > common. Instead of posing a problem to be solved and saying "go forth > > and > > solve this problem" the text doesn't bother to explain the problem in > > any > > detail, but it tells us what the solution is already! This artifact- > > and > > deliverable-centric approach isn't likely to produce a good solution. > > > > b) It's begging the question - do we really need Yet Another Markup > > Language (YAML)? Sez who? To do what? What is the problem we want YAML > > to > > solve? The world doesn't necessarily need YAML; it needs a solution to > > the > > choreography problem, and while that may or may not result in YAML, we > > don't need to constrain ourselves by thinking about the problem in > > these > > terms. Not yet anyhow. > > > > c) It's circular - apparently we need a choreography language to > > choreograph Web Services. The logic isn't exactly clear. > > > > Based on this thinking, I decided that I'd like our mission > > statement > > for this group to have the following features: > > 1) It must clearly set forth the problem to be solved, including an > > indication of the overall scope of the problem. > > 2) It must not presuppose any solution in advance of the problem > > analysis. > > 3) It must be clear and in the imperative case, so that a reader can > > easily > > tell if the problem they have falls under our area of effort. > > 4) It must be contextually-driven, taking into account the current > > state of > > affairs as we know it. When the charter was originally written, we > > didn't > > know about the OASIS fiasco, for example, and our mission certainly > > has to > > take these things into account if we intend to accomplish our goals. > > 5) It has to be reasonable - the problem to be solved has to be scoped > > in a > > way that allows us to actually have a fighting chance of success. > > > > Let's ask ourselves "What problem is it that we are trying to > > solve?" > > If I had to put it simply, I would say that we want to solve the > > problem of > > interoperability among Web Services and other systems. We want all our > > Web > > Services to come home with report cards that say "plays well with > > others". > > That's it. But that's a huge issue...and we cannot (and aren't charged > > with) solving the whole problem, just a part of it. Which part? The > > part > > that concerns interactions between one or more Web Services and any > > external systems. More specifically, we are concerned with the rules > > and > > constraints that a Web Service has to follow in order to interoperate > > reliably with the rest of the world. We can exclude the definitions of > > the > > interface of any given Web Service - WSDL group is doing that. We can > > also > > exclude questions of underlying low-level protocols, because we want to > > leave this deliberately unspecified. The content and packaging of Web > > Services messages are largely being handled by the SOAP WG. That > > leaves us > > with a set of constraints on the sequencing (the ordering of events in > > time) and composition (the patterns of message and response among one > > or > > more Web Services and one or more external systems, which may or may > > not be > > other Web Services, human beings, non-Web Service services, or > > something > > else altogether. > > > > So...after saying that, here is what I've come up with. YMMV. > > > > <mission statement group = "ws-chor" type="CSF level 0"> > > The mission of the Web Services Choreography Working Group at W3C is to > > specify the means by which Web Services may collaborate with > > external > > systems, specifically in the composition of multiple services and the > > sequencing of messages among them. > > </mission statement> > > > > Regards, > > > > D- > > > > ************************************************* > > Dr. Daniel Austin > > Sr. Technical Architect / Architecture Team Lead > > daniel_austin@notes.grainger.com <----- Note change! > > 847 793 5044 > > Visit http://www.grainger.com > > > > "If I get a little money, I buy books. If there is anything left over, > > I > > buy clothing and food." > > -Erasmus > > > > > > This email is confidential and may be protected by legal privilege. 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Received on Monday, 19 May 2003 18:44:32 UTC