- From: David Illsley <david.illsley@uk.ibm.com>
- Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2007 19:04:37 +0100
- To: Anish Karmarkar <Anish.Karmarkar@oracle.com>
- Cc: WS-Addressing <public-ws-addressing@w3.org>, public-ws-addressing-request@w3.org, tom@coastin.com
Hi Anish, Unfortunately, in speaking to one of our policy experts, there seems to be a negation concern with at least one scenario - the one in the example in fact... consider the following What is the meaning of Alternative 1 in this situation? Example 3-8. Client looking for an endpoint which supports Addressing, and does not require support for responses (will intersect with anything) <wsp:Policy> <wsp:ExactlyOne> <wsp:All> <wsam:Addressing> <-- supports all response types --> Alternative 1 <wsp:Policy> </wsp:Policy> </wsam:Addressing> </wsp:All> <wsp:All> <wsam:Addressing> <-- requires Anonymous responses --> Alternative 2 <wsp:Policy> <wsp:ExactlyOne> <wsp:All> <AnonymousResponses /> </wsp:All> </wsp:ExactlyOne> </wsp:Policy> </wsam:Addressing> </wsp:All> <wsp:All> <wsam:Addressing> <- requires nonAnonymous responses --> Alternative 3 <wsp:Policy> <wsp:ExactlyOne> <wsp:All> <NonAnonymousResponses /> </wsp:All> </wsp:ExactlyOne> </wsp:Policy> </wsam:Addressing> </wsp:All> </wsp:ExactlyOne> </wsp:Policy> My reading (of Framework, 3.2) is that because the AnonymousResponses assertion is found in Alternative 2 that the negation rule means that Alternative 1 includes a 'must not do AnonymousResponses meaning'. And similarly that because of Alternative 3, Alternative 1 includes a 'must not do NonAnonymousResponses meaning'. If so, Alternative 1 (in this context) does not mean "supports all response types", but in fact "Addressing is supported but you must not send Anonymous or Non-Anonymous response EPRs". Do you agree with this interpretation? David David Illsley Web Services Development MP211, IBM Hursley Park, SO21 2JN +44 (0)1962 815049 (Int. 245049) david.illsley@uk.ibm.com public-ws-addressing-request@w3.org wrote on 04/03/2007 12:30:50 AM: > > On the negation of nested assertion issue that we talked about today on > the call. I asked our internal policy expert (aka Ashok) about this and > his explanation was that the proposal as it is written, wrt the negation > issue, is fine. I.e., we can say (as we have) that absence of either of > the nested assertion means support for both (or that no claim is made). > > Negation applies *only* when there are two (or more) alternatives: P and > Q. P contains an assertion A (either top-level or nested) and Q does > not. If one chooses alternative Q, then that is equivalent to negation of A. > > HTH. > > -Anish > -- > > Tom Rutt wrote: > > attached is html showing all changes agreed today > > > > MarcG alternative G proposal: > > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-addressing/2007Mar/0043.html > > > > as amended by Tom Rutt Email > > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ws-addressing/2007Mar/0053.html > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > > > 3. Indicating Use of WS-Addressing > > > > This specification supports a mechanism for indicating, in a WSDL > > description, that the endpoint conforms to the WS-Addressing > > specification. That mechanism uses WS-Policy Framework [WS Policy 1.5 - > > Framework <#WSPolicy>]. > > > > > > 3.1 WS-Policy Assertions > > > > The mechanism for indicating that a binding or endpoint conforms to the > > WS-Addressing specification is through the use of the Web Services > > Policy - Framework [WS Policy 1.5 - Framework <#WSPolicy>] and Web > > Services Policy - Attachment [WS Policy 1.5 - Attachment > > <#WSPolicyAttachment>] specifications. This specification defines three > > policy assertions. > > > > The wsam:Addressing policy assertion applies to the endpoint policy subject. > > > > For WSDL 1.1, these assertions may be attached to |wsdl11:port| or > > |wsdl11:binding|. For WSDL 2.0, they may be attached to > > |wsdl20:endpoint| or |wsdl20:binding|. > > > > A policy expression containing the wsam:Addressing policy assertion MUST > > NOT be attached to a wsdl:portType or wsdl20:interface. The > > wsam:Addressing policy assertion specifies a concrete behavior whereas > > the wsdl:portType or wsdl20:interface is an abstract construct. > > > > > > 3.1.1 Addressing Assertion > > > > The wsam:Addressing policy assertion is a nested policy container > > assertion. The meaning of this assertion, when present in a policy > > alternative, is that WS-Addressing is required to communicate with the > > subject. The wsam:Addressing assertion indicates that there are no > > restrictions on the use of WS-Addressing unless otherwise qualified by > > assertions in its nested policy expression. In order to indicate that > > the subject supports WS-Addressing but does not require its use, an > > additional policy alternative should be provided which does not contain > > this assertion. This may be done in WS-Policy compact form by adding the > > attribute wsp:Optional="true" to the wsam:Addressing assertion. > > > > > > > > > > 3.1.2 AnonymousResponses Assertion > > > > The wsam:AnonymousResponses element MAY be used as a policy assertion > > nested within the wsam:Addressing assertion in accordance with the rules > > laid down by WS-Policy Framework 1.5 section 4.3.2. > > > > The appearance of this element within a policy alternativethe > > wsam:Addressing policy assertion indicates that the endpoint expresses > > explicitrequires support for request messages with to use response > > endpoint EPRs that contain the anonymous URI > > ("http://www.w3.org/2005/08/addressing/anonymous") as the value of > > [address]. In other words, the endpoint guarantees support forrequires > > the use of anonymous responses. > > > > The absence of the wsam:AnonymousResponses policy assertion within a > > policy alternative does *not* indicate that the endpoint will not accept > > request messages with response endpoint EPRs that contain the anonymous > > URI as an address; it simply indicates the lack of any affirmation of > > support for anonymous URIs. > > > > The None URI ("http://www.w3.org/2005/08/addressing/none") may appear as > > the value of [address] in place of the anonymous URI; this value MUST be > > accepted. > > > > > > 3.1.3 NonAnonymousResponses Assertion > > > > The wsam:NonAnonymousResponses element MAY be used as a policy assertion > > nested within the Addressing assertion in accordance with the rules laid > > down by WS-Policy Framework 1.5 section 4.3.2. The > > wsam:NonAnonymousResponses policy assertion MUST NOT be used in the same > > policy alternative as the wsam:AnonymousResponses policy assertion. > > > > The appearance of this element within a policy alternativethe > > wsam:Addressing assertion indicates that the endpoint expresses explicit > > support forrequires request messages with to use response endpoint EPRs > > that contain something other than the anonymous URI as the value of > > [address]. In other words, the endpoint guarantees support forrequires > > the use of non-anonymous responses. This assertion is deliberately > > vague; its presence indicates that some non-anonymous addresses will be > > accepted but doesn't constrain what such an address might look like. A > > receiver can still reject a request that contains an address that it > > doesn't understand or that requires a binding it doesn't support. > > > > As with the other assertions, the absence of the > > wsam:NonAnonymousResponses policy assertion within a policy alternative > > does *not* indicate that the endpoint will not accept request messages > > with response endpoint EPRs that contain something other than the > > anonymous URI address; it simply indicates the lack of any affirmation > > of support for them. > > > > The None URI ("http://www.w3.org/2005/08/addressing/none") may appear as > > the value of [address] in place of a non-anonymous address; this value > > MUST be accepted. > > > > > > 3.1.4 Examples (Compact Form) > > > > /Example 3-1.// Subject supports WS-Addressing, no statement on > > supported response EPRs/ > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsam:Addressing wsp:Optional="true"> > > > > <wsp:Policy/> > > > > </wsam:Addressing> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > /Example 3-2.// Subject requires WS-Addressing, no statement on > > supported response EPRs/ > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsam:Addressing> > > > > <wsp:Policy/> > > > > </wsam:Addressing> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > /Example 3-3. Subject supports WS-Addressing, explicitly (and > > optionally) supports anonymous and non-anonymous response EPRs/ > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsam:Addressing wsp:Optional="true"> > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsam:AnonymousResponses wsp:Optional="true"/> > > > > <wsam:NonAnonymousResponses wsp:Optional="true"/> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > </wsam:Addressing> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > /Example 3-4. Subject requires WS-Addressing, requires explicit support > > of anonymous or non-anonymous response EPRs/ > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsam:Addressing> > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > <wsam:AnonymousResponses/> > > > > <wsam:NonAnonymousResponses/> > > > > </wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > </wsam:Addressing> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > /Example 3-53.// Subject requires WS-Addressing and explicit > > supportrequires the use of non-anonymous response EPRs/ > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsam:Addressing> > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsam:NonAnonymousResponses/> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > </wsam:Addressing> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > > > 3.1.5 Examples (Normal Form) > > > > /Example 3-46. Subject supports WS-Addressing, no statement on supported > > response EPRs/ > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > <wsp:All/> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <wsam:Addressing> > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > <wsp:All/> > > > > </wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > </wsam:Addressing> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > </wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > /Example 3-57. Subject requires WS-Addressing, no statement on supported > > response EPRs/ > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <wsam:Addressing> > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > <wsp:All/> > > > > </wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > </wsam:Addressing> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > </wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > /Example 3-8. Subject supports WS-Addressing, explicitly (and > > optionally) supports anonymous and non-anonymous response EPRs/ > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > <wsp:All/> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <wsam:Addressing> > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > <wsp:All/> > > > > </wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > </wsam:Addressing> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <wsam:Addressing> > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <wsam:AnonymousResponses/> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > </wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > </wsam:Addressing> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <wsam:Addressing> > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <wsam:NonAnonymousResponses/> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > </wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > </wsam:Addressing> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <wsam:Addressing> > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <wsam:AnonymousResponses/> > > > > <wsam:NonAnonymousResponses/> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > </wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > </wsam:Addressing> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > </wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > /Example 3-9. Subject requires WS-Addressing, requires explicit support > > of anonymous or non-anonymous response EPRs/ > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <wsam:Addressing> > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <wsam:AnonymousResponses/> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > </wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > </wsam:Addressing> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <wsam:Addressing> > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <wsam:NonAnonymousResponses/> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > </wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > </wsam:Addressing> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > </wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > /Example 3-610. Subject requires WS-Addressing and explicit support > > ofrequires the use of non-anonymous response EPRs/ > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <wsam:Addressing> > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <wsam:NonAnonymousResponses/> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > </wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > </wsam:Addressing> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > </wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > > > 3.1.6 Finding Compatible Policies > > > > > > When a client is looking for an endpoint with compatible policy, > > one common method used is to take the policy intersection > > between the policy which the client is looking for, and the > > policy asserted in the WSDL document; a non-empty intersection > > is sought. The policy used by the client must be written > > carefully to avoid unexpected results. This is most obvious when > > the client is not looking for explicit support of a particular > > kind of response; failing to take care could mean missing a > > compatible policy. > > > > /Example 3-7. Client looking for an endpoint which supports Addressing, > > and which supports anonymous responses/ > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <wsam:Addressing> > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <AnonymousResponses Optional=?true? /> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > </wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > </wsam:Addressing> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > </wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > /Example 3-8. Client looking for an endpoint which supports Addressing, > > and does not require support for responses (will intersect with anything)/ > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <wsam:Addressing> <-- supports all response types --> > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > </wsam:Addressing> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <wsam:Addressing> <-- requires Anonymous responses --> > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <AnonymousResponses /> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > </wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > </wsam:Addressing> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <wsam:Addressing> <- requires nonAnonymous responses --> > > > > <wsp:Policy> > > > > <wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > <wsp:All> > > > > <NonAnonymousResponses /> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > </wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > </wsam:Addressing> > > > > </wsp:All> > > > > </wsp:ExactlyOne> > > > > </wsp:Policy> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For more detailed descriptions of the use of wsp:Optional, > > wsp:Ignorable, and strict and lax intersection, please refer to > > the WS-Policy Primer [WS Policy 1.5 - Primer <#WSPolicyPrimer>]. > > > > > > > > > Unless stated otherwise above: IBM United Kingdom Limited - Registered in England and Wales with number 741598. Registered office: PO Box 41, North Harbour, Portsmouth, Hampshire PO6 3AU
Received on Tuesday, 3 April 2007 18:04:56 UTC