- From: John Kemp <john.kemp@nokia.com>
- Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 09:33:33 -0400
- To: ext Mark Little <mark.little@arjuna.com>
- CC: "Conor P. Cahill" <concahill@aol.com>, Mark Nottingham <mark.nottingham@bea.com>, WS-Addressing <public-ws-addressing@w3.org>
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I think the point Conor is trying to make is that without the ability to put multiple addresses into an EPR (ie. via XML schema maxOccurs="unbounded") at the WS-Addressing specification/schema layer, no-one can profile the usage of this functionality. And I agree with the requirement BTW. - - JohnK ext Mark Little wrote: > > I agree with the requirement. I just disagree that it's so fundamental > that it has to be within WS-Addressing. > > Mark. > > > Conor P. Cahill wrote: > >> While the particular example that I gave could be considered a >> profile of how one uses an EPR, the fact is that the basic >> data structure of the EPR, as it currently stands, does not >> allow such a profile by only permitting (and requiring) >> a single URI in a single-occurance element called address. >> >> I think that by loosening this requirement to allow >> multiple address elements, the spec then becomes >> profilable to support different situations. >> >> EPRs are a method of describing how to reach a logical >> endpoint for the destination of one or more messages, >> it makes alot of sense (IMHO) to allow such a container >> to have multiple addresses. >> >> Conor >> >> Mark Little wrote on 10/16/2005, 3:37 AM: >> >> > >> > Hi Conor. Wouldn't that be something to layer on WS-Addressing? WS-QoS >> > or WS-HighAvailability/WS-Group perhaps? The same requirements have >> > certainly arisen in other distributed systems/architectures in the past >> > and been often been tackled as an abstraction on top of baseline >> > addressing, e.g., by introducing the notion of a logical group address. >> > For example, in CORBA they introduced the notion of an Interoperable >> > Logical Group Reference (IOGR) within the Fault Tolerant specification >> > (http://www.omg.org/cgi-bin/doc?formal/04-03-21) which allowed them to >> > do pretty much what you describe. >> > >> > One of the problems with putting this within the baseline addressing >> > infrastructure is that it's not as simple as just adding multiple EPRs. >> > You need to think about what the "fail-over" policy is (essentially why >> > and when do I use one EPR over another?): what's good for one >> > client/application may not be good for another, particularly when you >> > consider things like service consistency and split-brain scenarios. >> So I >> > think if we went down that route within WS-Addressing we'd either spend >> > a long time developing the right framework to handle all of this, or >> > we'd come up with something basic which will eventually be >> superceded by >> > something like a WS-Group because it doesn't cope with all of the use >> > cases. >> > >> > Mark. >> > >> > >> > Conor P. Cahill wrote: >> > >> > > >> > >Mark Nottingham wrote on 10/15/2005, 4:35 PM: >> > > >> > > > >> > > > Conor, >> > > > >> > > > We discussed this as part of a number of WD issues, including; >> > > > http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/addr/wd-issues/#i009 >> > > > http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/addr/wd-issues/#i026 >> > > >> > >While both of these have a somewhat similar feel to them they >> > >are not the same issue. I'm not talking about different >> > >protocols/ports, nor about multiple eprs. >> > > >> > >I am simply talking about providing alternative physical >> > >destination URIs that are all intepreted as the same logical >> > >destination URI so that the client has alternatives should >> > >there be a problem using one of them. >> > > >> > >The intent is that only one logical message is sent to >> > >one logical entity while giving the sender some level >> > >of optimization/recovery should one of the physical >> > >endpoints not be available. >> > > >> > >I'm simply asking to allow <Address> to be multi-occurance >> > >within the EPR whit the definition that all such elements >> > >in a single EPR equate to the destination URI of the one >> > >logical entity described by the EPR. >> > > >> > >We need this kind of functionality in dealing with the hundreds >> > >of millions of clients that we have in the real world that >> > >talk to different instances of the same service, frequenqly >> > >depending upon their geographic location, network status, etc. >> > > >> > >Our work-around is to send multiple EPRs, but I think this >> > >is a pretty painful workaround (lots of duplication of data >> > >and the client now has to compare the multiple EPRS that they >> > >get back to figure out which two are really the same EPR with >> > >just a different addresss). >> > > >> > >Of note: this is *implementation* feedback, not just spec reading >> > >feedback. In our implementation we find the need for this (and >> > >feel that others, when the get to the point of supporting real >> > >world situations will also need this -- not all, but many). >> > > >> > >Conor >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >> >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDUlatmNJiOOM57NMRAlLyAKCjpVZWDq/hdK3OUzC1jKYIRAx5sACeMgIz vzqAOIp4TUEl3FEYT6hGFrc= =R4Tj -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Received on Sunday, 16 October 2005 13:40:11 UTC