[TD-TF] minutes - 14 April 2021

available at:
  https://www.w3.org/2021/04/14-wot-td-minutes.html

also as text below.

Thanks a lot for taking the minutes, Cristiano!

Kazuyuki

---
   [1]W3C

      [1] https://www.w3.org/

                             WoT-WG - TD-TF

14 April 2021

   [2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.

      [2] https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#Apr_14.2C_2021
      [3] https://www.w3.org/2021/04/14-wot-td-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Cristiano_Aguzi, Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan,
          Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_Koster, Michael_McCool,
          Sebastian_Kaebisch, Tomoaki_Mizushima

   Regrets
          -

   Chair
          -

   Scribe
          cris_, kaz

Contents

    1. [4]Agenda
    2. [5]previous minutes
    3. [6]last td meeting minutes
    4. [7]publication plans
    5. [8]deferred issues
    6. [9]PRs
         1. [10]Binding Template PR 112
         2. [11]TD PR 937
         3. [12]TD PR 945
         4. [13]TD PR 1058
         5. [14]TD PR 1061
         6. [15]TD PR 1065
         7. [16]TD PR 1077
         8. [17]TD PR 1085
         9. [18]TD PR 1086
        10. [19]TD PR 1090
        11. [20]TD PR 1092
    7. [21]Summary of resolutions

Meeting minutes

  Agenda

   Ege: I would add topics to the agenda

   <Ege> [22]https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/112

     [22] https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/112

   Ege: on PR and an issue

   <Ege> [23]https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/
   86

     [23] https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/86

   <Ege> [24]https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/
   86

     [24] https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/86

   <Ege> [25]https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/112

     [25] https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/112

   Sebastian: welcome back to our weekly td web meeting
   … no guests today

   Sebastian: we have a couple of PRs in the pipeline, plus we
   have to review previous minutes
   … we'll also discuss the publication schedule

  previous minutes

   <kaz> [26]vF2F minutes

     [26] https://www.w3.org/2021/03/15-25-wot-minutes.html#d5

   Sebastian: we discussed new features of the next TD version
   (1.1)
   … also new vocabulary terms
   … a couple of typos
   … new uri scheme for Security information
   … Morever we talked about the publication readmap. We'll review
   it today
   … the current plan should be aligned with our test fest

   McCool: may 15 is a Saturday, probably we have to reschedule
   the deadline
   … possibly a couple of days earlier

   Sebastian: let discuss it later

   Sebastian: then we had the presentation from Micheal Koster
   about SDF outcomes in the plug fest.
   … I am seeing that my slides are not linked in the minutes
   … we should add them

   McCool: we are missing a few slide decks, we need to clean up
   the minutes a little bit.

   Sebastian: later new had a presentation about Conanicalisation,
   … also here I don't see link to the slides
   … finally we had an update to the latest news from IoT Schema
   by Michael Koster
   … minutes looks good, we need only to fix the links
   … other than that minutes are approved

  last td meeting minutes

   <kaz> [27]March-10

     [27] https://www.w3.org/2021/03/10-wot-td-minutes.html

   Sebastian: update from Cristiano about the new modbus document
   … then we looked at a bunch of PRs
   … 1058 should be merged, we'll check it later
   … 1061 is still open
   … 1065 still open too
   … then we reviewed 1053 issue about additionalResponses

   McCool: I was working on it but I found a problem in security
   schemas definition.
   … so first we need to fix it
   … it would be great if someone could provide a PR fixing it
   … there are several issues
   … current draft is broken, it does not have securityDefinitions

   Sebastian: it might be a problem with the render script

   McCool: we should definitely fix this problem befor the CR
   transition

   Sebastian: I'm seeing a pattern, there are also other
   definitions broken
   … I have the impression that is a render script issue

   McCool: there're also some problems insdie the ontology

   Sebastian: do we have a tracking issue for this?

   McCool: we should

   McCool: base is also missing

   Sebastian: I think it was removed by accident
   … I'll try to understand what happened

   Sebastian: back to the minutes, we have a PR from Cristiano
   refactoring TM-to-TD generation
   … any objections about the minutes?
   … ok minutes approved

  publication plans

   Sebastian: we already a draft schedule, the next WD should be
   published around middle may

   McCool: I am proposing 12 for taking a resolution
   … and froze the current document soon
   … april 28 could be a good deadline

   Sebastian: only two weeks from now?

   McCool: we can move it to May 5th
   … probably the same will happen for discovery
   … resolution should be May 19th

   Sebastian: is it ok ?

   Ege: it is tight, but ok

   Sebastian: yeah, but it is still a WD
   … we have time to later nail down major issues

   McCool: indeed we should aim for small fixes for May

   Sebastian: ok roadmap noted

   Resolution: the plan for the next WD TD 1.1 would be: call for
   review on May 5th and do resolution for publication on May 19th

  deferred issues

   Sebastian: as usual please check the postponed issues for TD
   2.0, speak up if you would like to address them in the current
   version

  PRs

    Binding Template PR 112

   Sebastian: let's start with PR 112

   Ege: it comes from vF2F

   <Ege> [28]https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/586

     [28] https://github.com/w3c/wot-architecture/pull/586

   McCool: since it depends on an Architecture update, let's defer
   it to Arch call

   Sebastian: relating to this I have to remove Thing Model
   definition and add it to architecture
   … ok any objections to merge it?
   … merged

    TD PR 937

   <kaz> [29]wot-thing-description PR 937 - WIP: swap securtiy and
   securityDefinition in context file

     [29] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/937

   Sebastian: TD PR 937 is wip, victor is also involved because is
   touching the ontology and shacl definitions
   … then we have proof and proofChain section PR

   McCool: it is related to signing but is based on the outdated
   jsonld proof
   … still working in progress

    TD PR 945

   <kaz> [30]wot-thing-description PR 945 - Simplified inline
   security definitions

     [30] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/945

   Sebastian: 945 is deferred

    TD PR 1058

   <kaz> [31]wot-thing-description PR 1058 - Add JSON pointer
   assertion to definition of body sec location

     [31] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1058

   Sebastian: then we have 1058 about JSON pointer assertions

   McCool: I changed body to accept a json pointer but there's
   also other weird issues that I tried to fixed.
   … possibly render script issues
   … we should remove these file from git tracked list

   <kaz> s|let's start from 112|[32]PR 112 - remove terminology
   since it is moving to architecture|

     [32] https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/112

   McCool: the real content talks about body content. It should be
   a json pointer which will not starting from the root, it is a
   relative pointer. So it cannot start with #
   … there are implementation challages
   … because this pr allow automatic insertions that processor
   should be able to handle

   <kaz> i|937 is wip|[33]wot-thing-description PR 937 - WIP: swap
   securtiy and securityDefinition in context file|

     [33] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/937

   McCool: the automatic insertion helps to reduce redundancy
   cause the designer can avoid to add the security information in
   each data schema

   Ege: some history: in the current spec we have body security
   schema, but it was not really usable cause you couldn't point
   to any specific keyword in the body.

   Ege: should I use it even with readproperty?
   … readproperty does not have inputs

   McCool: body makes sense only for POST requests
   … we probably need to force implementers to use POST

   McCool: what webthings io does about local security?

   Ege: they don't really have any local sec
   … by the way I would open an issue about adding a ednote saying
   that body should be only used when the protocol allows it

   Sebastian: it would be nice to have this PR also for testing
   … any objection to merge it?
   … merged

    TD PR 1061

   <kaz> [34]wot-thing-description PR 1061 - WIP: Fix cardinality
   of Link.rel

     [34] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1061

   Sebastian: marking 1061 as ongoing
   … possibly related to problems in the render script. Array is
   spawning where it shouldn't
   … victor is working on that

    TD PR 1065

   <kaz> [35]wot-thing-description PR 1065 - fix: the "required"
   keyword was placed incorrectly in the TM schema

     [35] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1065

   Sebastian: ignoring, I am working on another PR about the same
   topic

    TD PR 1077

   <kaz> [36]wot-thing-description PR 1077 - WIP: Extend JSON-LD
   context to allow for round-tripping to/from N-Triples

     [36] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1077

   Sebastian: important PR about transforming jsonld to rdf and
   back
   … still working progress, it has something to do with framing

    TD PR 1085

   <kaz> [37]wot-thing-description PR 1085 - WIP: Add Validation
   Section

     [37] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1085

   Sebastian: from mc and it's about validation

   McCool: there's three levels defined
   … maybe leave out the highest validation level
   … it needs input and discussion
   … please comment
   … it also tries to fix assertions and other minor problems
   … full validation might even involve to test the output of the
   WebThing
   … it needs input

    TD PR 1086

   <kaz> [38]wot-thing-description PR 1086 - Add section to define
   Canonical serialization

     [38] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1086

   Sebastian: possibly we can merge this

   McCool: a TD processor should not re-order array elements
   inside a TD otherwise the canonicalization would be broken.

   Daniel: removing duplicates it is hard

   McCool: implementing Canonical serialization is challenging
   itself.
   … some json processors reorder properties in alphabetical
   order.
   … it might make streaming processing difficult
   … I am stating an exact order in the PR

   Daniel: what about different prefixes?
   … valid in jsonld?

   McCool: I think they should be expanded using a jsonld
   processor

   Cristiano: so I can't use prefixed properties in a canonical TD

   McCool: yeah you should not leverage on prefixes in jsonld is
   an antipattern

   Cristiano: what happens with the default context ? do we have
   an assertion about it?

   McCool: yes we should have it

   Ege: true

   Sebastian: we are missing an example

   McCool: the thing is that a canonical td must not have
   withespaces, so the example would be a blob of text
   … but we can add a pretty print button

   Daniel: or we can do it for every example
   … readable example and a button for canonical form

   McCool: no all examples are not real tds

   Cristiano: we can skip the not real tds

   McCool: yeah we need a library that is able to derive a
   canonical form
   … a bit annoying to implement

   Cristiano: we can reuse it even in node-wot

   McCool: also in discovery (e.g. db serialization)
   … I'll write this tool myself

   Sebastian: let's review the PR next week then

    TD PR 1090

   <kaz> [39]wot-thing-description PR 1090 - init tmRef

     [39] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1090

   Sebastian: the PR introduces the import mechanism in the TD
   … is taken from sdf
   … basically you can take the definition from other TDs

   Sebastian: you can mix it with extends

   Sebastian: we had one comment from Jan to clarify if you can
   import an element from a TD that extends another one
   … is also speakinga bout overriding

   Cristiano: seems reasonable to me

   Koster: in sdf we say that you should not change the semantics

   Cristiano: yeah, we should be more careful for extending models
   rather than importing.

   Kaz: do we really need this extension for thing descriptions?
   … we already have links

   Sebastian: these features are useful

   Kaz: do we really need to complicate the TD to have all this
   "programming language" features?

   Sebastian: just to clarify this feature is for TMs

   Kaz: how to deal with TMs is already challenging

   Sebastian: yeah it is, maybe in the future we could move in a
   dedicated specification document

   Kaz: indeed a while ago I proposed having a dedicated note for
   TMs

    TD PR 1092

   <kaz> [40]wot-thing-description PR 1092 - rename required to
   tmRequired + top level definition

     [40] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1092

   Sebastian: required keyword was found to be problematic
   … the PR renames required to tmRequired

   Cristiano: it is good, but why did not used tm as jsonld
   prefix?

   Sebastian: yeah it would be another way

   McCool: yeah it would be more consistent with also what we are
   doing for TDD

   Sebastian: I like it but it might be small
   … I am not against it

   Koster: +1

   Sebastian: marking as not ready to merge, I'll go down with the
   new namespace solution

   Sebastian: could we embed it inside the TD context?

   McCool: yeah

   Ege: what are the implications when a TD does not follow the
   required rule?

   Sebastian: it is a validation issue

   Koster: it is actually another level of validation

   Ege: I understand, but what happens if I have a TD that does
   not follow the TM?

   McCool: I would add a clause in the full validation

   Ege: I wondering if it has real functioning implications

   <Ege> [41]https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/
   86

     [41] https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/86

   Ege: I'd like to invite Jan to next call

   Sebastian: ok

   Kaz: is the TM section normative?
   … if not we don't need assertions

   Sebastian: let's talk about it next time

   Sebastian: adjourned

Summary of resolutions

    1. [42]the plan for the next WD TD 1.1 would be: call for
       review on May 5th and do resolution for publication on May
       19th


    Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by
    [43]scribe.perl version 127 (Wed Dec 30 17:39:58 2020 UTC).

     [43] https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html

Received on Wednesday, 5 May 2021 07:15:54 UTC