[TD-TF] minutes - 10 March 2021

available at:
  https://www.w3.org/2021/03/10-wot-td-minutes.html

also as text below.

Thanks a lot for taking the minutes, Cristiano!

Kazuyuki

---
   [1]W3C

      [1] https://www.w3.org/

                             WoT-WG - TD-TF

10 March 2021

   [2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.

      [2] https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#Mar_10.2C_2021
      [3] https://www.w3.org/2021/03/10-wot-td-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Cristiano_Aguzzi, Ege_Korkan, Kaz_Ashimura,
          Klaus_Hartke, Michael_Koster, Michael_McCool,
          Sebastian_Kaebisch, Tomoaki_Mizushima

   Regrets
          -

   Chair
          Sebastian

   Scribe
          cris, kaz

Contents

    1. [4]agenda
    2. [5]previous minutes
    3. [6]Modbus binding
    4. [7]PR 1058
    5. [8]PR 1060
    6. [9]PR 1061
    7. [10]PR 1065
    8. [11]Issue 1053
    9. [12]Issue 1047
   10. [13]Issue 1037
   11. [14]Issue 1020

Meeting minutes

  agenda

   Sebastian: no guest today

   Sebastian: we'll start from the modbus biding pr
   … then go trough the issues
   … in particular about the additionalResponses topics
   … is there anything else
   … ?

   Ege: there's a PR about the required term
   … is this included in the agenda?

   Sebastian: kind of we have a PR point in the agenda

  previous minutes

   <sebastian> [15]https://www.w3.org/2021/02/
   24-wot-td-minutes.html

     [15] https://www.w3.org/2021/02/24-wot-td-minutes.html

   Sebastian: no call last week because of PlugFest
   … then we discussed CR/PR planning
   … collected some topics for the F2F meeting
   … discussed the additionalResponses
   … finally we merge a PR about TM json schema

   Sebastian: ok, any objection to publish the minutes?
   … ok, minutes accepted

   Sebastian: ok then a quick update. I'd suggest skipping next
   meetings during the f2f
   … any comments about the f2f agenda?

   <kaz> [16]TD day on March 24

     [16] https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_March_2021#Wednesday_March_24

   Sebastian: ok

  Modbus binding

   Sebastian: cristiano has updates about his PR

   [17]PR 109 - Refining Modbus protocol binding

     [17] https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/109

   Cristiano: captured the discussion so far

   [18]preview

     [18] https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/relu91/wot-binding-templates/pull/109.html

   Cristiano: would like to get feedback
   … what is lacking and nice to have is URL for modbus and the
   other binding

   Ege: should be sort of another content for chapter on URL
   scheme
   … modbus TCP
   … applied to RTU

   Cristiano: need to specify that
   … not sure which one to try first, though

   Ege: modbus standards to be referred

   Sebastian: we should have a subsection on the base URL
   … for modbus scheme, etc.
   … also we should think about the title of the document

   Sebastian: another question is "entity and function"
   … what do you mean?

   Cristiano: depends on the modbus vocabulary

   Sebastian: not typically to have the information on the header
   … maybe a separate section
   … reference section

   Kaz: agree with Sebastian, and think we should discuss how to
   deal with this document
   … possibly (1) an example section or (2) a separate best
   practice document

   <Mizushima> +1

   Koster: we have protocol binding template document which
   defines how the binding works
   … new binding could be added without changing the model
   … but actual binding examples like modbus binding would cause
   too many dependencies
   … for binding templates, we want interoperability
   … not really sure about the procedure but we could produce
   multiple documents for the guidance
   … e.g., modbus binding

   Cristiano: that's my understanding as well

   McCool: we can add informative notes if needed

   Kaz: right

   McCool: easier to mange is important

   Cristiano: right
   … btw, the ontology itself here doesn't exist

   Sebastian: would agree too
   … the situation around IoT changes everyday
   … what you have to do for the possible protocols in the future?

   Cristiano: have some more thing to do as well
   … so can wait before merging
   … e.g., I'd like to add additional sections based on the
   comments

   Kaz: btw, you use the same tool to generate the HTML based on
   the template HTML like the TD spec. right?

   Cristiano: exactly

   Kaz: btw, why there are so many changes with the .gitignore
   file as well?

   Cristiano: let me check

   [19]changes

     [19] https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/109/files

   Klaus: which ontology are you using here?

   Cristiano: this was created by a student of Ege
   … for modbus nod-wot binding
   … so basically we ourselves generated it

   Kaz: so the final modbus ontology might be bigger

   Cristiano: right

   Sebastian: Ege, your student reflects the existing modbus
   standards. right?

   Ege: yeah

   Sebastian: maybe we should ping the modbus community to review
   this

   Sebastian: for example, about security for modbus

   Cristiano: once it's published, we can get more feedback

   Koster: maybe there are some terminology questions

   Cristiano: ok

   Klaus: do we classify everything?

   Cristiano: you have classes and properties

   Klaus: HTTP in RDF doesn't use this grouping
   … maybe for COPA, MQTT, etc.?

   Cristiano: right
   … not for HTTP here

   Klaus: btw, what about CoAP binding?

   Sebastian: also interested in that
   … and wanted to ask you, Klaus, about that :)

   Klaus: you can see the possible values here
   … what I did is automatically convert this
   … that is the 1st step
   … and then we could tackle CoAP binding

   Cristiano: basically there are 3 scripts here
   … which were generated by Victor

   Klaus: can generate a TTL file and convert it to RDF
   … the TTL are to be reviewed

   Sebastian: in that case, you both (=Cristiano and Klaus) can
   work together offline

   Cristiano: can help Klaus

   Sebastian: let's make a prototype based on this description
   (=coap.ttl) first
   … thanks a lot for your hard work
   … remaining question is modbus security

   Sebastian: we should reach the modbus community

   Cristiano: yes, we could try

   <Ege> [20]https://modbus.org/

     [20] https://modbus.org/

   Ege: there's something going on in the modbus community
   … not properly a standardization. (see link above)

   Sebastian: Itachi is member, we could also aske them

   <sebastian> [21]https://control.com/forums/forums/modbus.36/

     [21] https://control.com/forums/forums/modbus.36/

   Koster: the real name is the modbus organization

   <kaz> topi: Defer issues to TD 2.0

   Sebastian: ok, let's move the next topic

   <kaz> [22]Issues to be deferred to 2.0

     [22] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:"Defer+to+TD+2.0"

   Sebastian: btw please look for propose closing and TD 2.0
   labels

  PR 1058

   <kaz> [23]PR 1058 - WIP: Add JSON pointer assertion to
   definition of body sec location

     [23] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1058

   Sebastian: let's start form add json pointer assertion to
   definition of body sec location #1058

   McCool: we discussed briefly on the format of the json pointer.
   … any further comments are welcomed

   Sebastian: is the json pointer format standard?

   McCool: yes it has its own RFC. it has been around from 2016

  PR 1060

   <kaz> [24]PR 1060 - fix issue #980

     [24] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1060

   Sebastian: I fixed an issue with @type for contentEncoding in
   the context-1.1.json ld
   … should we merge it?
   … merged
   … issue 980 closed

   <kaz> [25]Issue 980 - Definition of contentEncoding should be
   of type xsd:string

     [25] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/980

  PR 1061

   <kaz> [26]PR 1061 - Fix cardinality of Link.rel

     [26] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1061

   Sebastian: in the current draft the type of link type and rel
   is wrong. it is string or array but we didn't agreed on this
   change
   … this pr fixes this problem

   <kaz> [27]Preview of "5.3.4.1 Link"

     [27] https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1061.html#link

   Sebastian: it seems that the problem is not completely solved
   in the PR. rel field is still anyURI whereas previously was
   simply string
   … I'll ask victor to look at it

  PR 1065

   <kaz> [28]PR 1065 - fix: the "required" keyword was placed
   incorrectly in the TM schema

     [28] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1065

   Sebastian: simple PR about fixing the validation of TM. It
   basically wildcard the term required. However, I don't like the
   required implementation so I think we should directly improve
   the implementation instead of validating

   Ege: he edited the wrong file, we should describe the process

   Cristiano: we can set up a github actions saying which file
   should not be touched

   Ege: cool, can we set up the github action?

   Kaz: right he should edit the index.template.html
   … we could do the process manually also
   … there's two separate issues validation and the generation

   Sebastian: not easy we should involve victor
   … we automated the process to avoid mistakes

   Ege: I think we diverged a little bit. I would like to have
   simply the validation

   Sebastian: btw I updated the discussion on the issue with the
   comments.

   Kaz: PRs should be generated by the editors
   … or at least included in the editors group
   … it might be good to file an issue and the editors will create
   the PR

   Sebastian: ok next topic

  Issue 1053

   <sebastian> [29]Issue 1053 - Consider adding DataSchema to
   response and additionalResponses

     [29] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1053

   Sebastian: it is about the new additionalResponses

   McCool: btw additionalResponses is not a subclass of regular
   responses. For example contentType is mandatory

   Sebastian: and it has also schema

   McCool: yes

   McCool: there's question if the additionalResponses should be
   used for successful responses
   … not sure about examples but I suspect there're some API which
   as different dataschmas

   Sebastian: in the issues we discussed if it is good to have the
   schema in the additionalResponses

   Koster: exactly I wrote about this in my comment

   McCool: we could rename it as errorResponses
   … the default behavior should be a protocol generated response

   Sebastian: in the issue I created an example using json
   pointers
   … we could introduce addtionalSchema

   McCool: yeah we could make it an object
   … then we have to decide to use json pointers or json schema
   pointers

   +1 for additionalSchemas

   McCool: we could use names to define addtionalSchemas

   Koster: +1

   McCool: that would allow to reuse schemas

   +1

   Ege: also we could use this feature to help TD designers
   … so that they could not repeat the schema

   McCool: like the idea, let me update the PR

   Ege: should we restrict the kind of data to be put in the
   additionalSchemas?

   McCool: should avoid using pointers to much

   McCool: btw with definitions we could avoid using json schema
   pointers

   McCool: we should use json pointers than schema it is standard

   Cristiano: good the direction, I like it. Keep in mind that it
   might get harder to parse the TD in a linear way
   … canolization could help

   McCool: agree, but I would avoid to expand pointers cause we
   could reduce the bandwidth

   Sebastian: good point about parsing, but this is an exceptional
   situation
   … it might not be present in all TDs

   klaus: +1 it is a good practice to have a well defined place

   Cristiano: it is easier also to validate

   McCool: ok, I'll work on the PR to bring these updates

   Sebastian: this concepts we could reuse for log running actions

   Sebastian: I'd put that the same place of URI variables

   McCool: btw you can define objects in uriVariables which is
   difficult to serialize
   … at least we should add an assertion

   Koster: it might be some way to serialize objects to URI

   McCool: btw if disallow having object in URI we could re
   introduce it later.

  Issue 1047

   <kaz> [30]Issue 1047 - Two step generation of the TD from a TM
   should be clear

     [30] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1047

   Sebastian: how to generate TDs from TMs

   <mjk> (Koster leaves)

   Sebastian: cristiano made a point to make the last points
   towards the term partialTD

   Sebastian: afraid that the partialTD could confuse

   Cristiano: yeah it might, but we have the definition in the
   architecture

   Ege: also partialTD is not so hard to understand. it should be
   clear the difference between a TM and a partialTD

   [31]https://w3c.github.io/wot-architecture/#dfn-partial-td

     [31] https://w3c.github.io/wot-architecture/#dfn-partial-td

   Sebastian: good I'll provide a pr

  Issue 1037

   <kaz> [32]Issue 1037 - The "body" location value for security
   schemes is underspecified

     [32] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1037

   Sebastian: it seems we could close this one

   McCool: it needs to be closed only after merging the linked PR

   Sebastian: ok next time then

  Issue 1020

   Sebastian: defer to the next meeting, it is really interesting
   because it compares our definition of action and properties
   with other standard

   Kaz: totally agree
   … my impression is they don't really restrict the usage of
   actions or properties
   … it depends on the implementation
   … actually, that's why I've been asking you all to generate
   guidelines from our previous experience in plugfests :)

   Cristiano: it depends a lot if you are modelling a new device
   or mapping an old one to wot

   Koster: it is good to discuss this. I spent a lot of time
   describing the usage of actions to rest guys

   Kaz: we could have complicated actions, e.g., changing the
   brightness within one minutes gradually
   … in that case, using properties would be very hard

   Sebastian: yeah I would use actions
   … let's discuss next time

   adjourned


    Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by
    [33]scribe.perl version 127 (Wed Dec 30 17:39:58 2020 UTC).

     [33] https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html

Received on Wednesday, 5 May 2021 07:11:44 UTC