[wot-discovery] minutes - 15 February 2020

available at:
  https://www.w3.org/2021/02/15-wot-discovery-minutes.html

also as text below.

Thanks a lot for taking the minutes, Philipp and Farshid!

Kazuyuki

---
   [1]W3C

      [1] https://www.w3.org/

                             WoT Discovery

15 February 2021

   [2]Agenda. [3]IRC log.

      [2] https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Discovery_WebConf#15_February_2021
      [3] https://www.w3.org/2021/02/15-wot-discovery-irc

Attendees

   Present
          Andrea_Cimmino, Christian_Glomb, Christine_Perey,
          Cristiano_Aguzzi, David_Ezell, Farshid_Tavakolizadeh,
          Kaz_Ashimura, Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_McCool,
          Philipp-Alexander_Blum, Tomoaki_Mizushima

   Regrets
          -

   Chair
          McCool

   Scribe
          Philipp, Farshid, Kaz

Contents

    1. [4]minutes
    2. [5]Extending the discovery slot to 2h
    3. [6]F2F schedule
    4. [7]PR Specify self-described exploration #115
    5. [8]Refine the information model #118
    6. [9]Geolocation
    7. [10]#1042 error responses
    8. [11]Pagination

Meeting minutes

  minutes

   <kaz> [12]Feb-8

     [12] https://www.w3.org/2021/02/08-wot-discovery-minutes.html

   no objections to publishing the minutes

  Extending the discovery slot to 2h

   McCool: We can try to finish important things in the first hour
   and continue with less important things in the second hour

   McCool: Will do an extra hour today and discuss it again next
   week. Some people have conflicts.

  F2F schedule

   <kaz> [13]F2F topics

     [13] https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_March_2021#Topics_to_be_Scheduled

   McCool: The date is fixed

   McCool: Need to start scheduling some topics

   McCool: In particular, the discovery topics. E.g. review of
   current spec such as introduction, info. model, serialization

   Cristiano: One open issue which we can discuss in the F2F is
   the framing.

   Andrea: Cannot convert back and forth between JSON-LD and RDF

   Christian: It makes sense to have TD people and also Victor
   Charpenay who designed the TD ontology.

   <kaz> kaz: should add semantic search, etc.

   McCool: Each day is 3h. If longer, we'll have to break the slot
   into 2 days.

   <McCool> [14]https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/
   F2F_meeting,_March_2021#Discovery

     [14] https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/F2F_meeting,_March_2021#Discovery

  PR Specify self-described exploration #115

   <kaz> [15]PR 115 - Specify self-described exploration

     [15] https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/115

   McCool: References in assertions cause issues in the generated
   output

   McCool: What about filtering / selecting a part of TD, e.g.
   using JSONPath

   <kaz> [16]6.1 Self-description

     [16] https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-discovery/115/b122b36...farshidtz:0ee7abc.html#exploration-self

   McCool: For example, to ask devices to respond only if their
   TDs have a particular property

   McCool: no objections to merging.

  Refine the information model #118

   <kaz> [17]PR 118 - Refine the information model

     [17] https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/118

   McCool: prefer the overview.

   Farshid: Didn't wanted to show we have a new class

   Farshid: This diagram makes it clear this is optional.

   McCool: Do I need all information in the directory? It is all
   or nothing.

   <FarshidT> [18]https://plantuml.com/class-diagram

     [18] https://plantuml.com/class-diagram

   Farshid: The diagram tool is used in the other specs as well.

   McCool: Little confusing diagram.

   Farshid: yes, I can change that.

   Andrea explaining some context of the diagram tool.

   McCool: Guess, in the future, reopen the discussion. Okay with
   merging it for now.

   McCool: Any comments on it?

   Farshid Adds some comments about the diagram.

   Farshid: Check terminology.

   McCool: I take a look

   McCool: probably want to be more specific.

   Farshid: When I cite the terminology I am more specific.

   McCool: question is, if the terminology of partial TD
   consistent.

   McCool adds issue to wot-discovery

   issue 119 created in wot-discovery

   McCool: Any objections merging it?

   no objections

   Christian: Can we mark it as work in progress?

   McCool: You can raise additional points, if you want to. Or add
   editorial notes.

   Farshid: There is an issue on github we can link to.

   McCool adds comment about the issue being a WIP.

   <cperey> sorry... not much to contribute to today's discussion
   so signing off until you return to the AR or geospatial use
   cases

   McCool merged the PR

  Geolocation

   McCool: No additional points. Working on it.

   <kaz> [ 5min break and then continue the discussion for today ]

   McCool organizes some of the issues and prioritizes them.

   McCool: Let's put all the terminology stuff into this one
   issue. (#119 in wot-discovery)

   <kaz> [19]Issue 119 - Revisit Partial TD terminology

     [19] https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/issues/119

   McCool: Working on a PR. Fragment is inconsistent. So, proposed
   to change it.

   McCool: Proposed to change it to TD element instead

   McCool: Other terms to worry about?

   No responses

  #1042 error responses

   <kaz> [20]wot-thing-description PR 1042 - WIP: Add
   additionalResponses to Form

     [20] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1042

   McCool: Right now we have in forms content-type. Expected to be
   input and output the same. Trouble is: Only the case for
   properties. You can also can different response from input.

   McCool: ExpectedResponse only has contentType. No additional
   fields. This lead to problems in certain cases.

   McCool: I think we need additional fields.

   Christian: Do we have any examples for this?

   McCool explains some cases where this my happen.

   McCool: Thinking about updating my PR for it.

   <FarshidT> The original issue has few examples: [21]https://
   github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/617

     [21] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/617

   McCool: Just wanted to point this out. We should discuss this.

  Pagination

   <kaz> [22]Issue 16 - Handle huge set of Thing Descriptions
   (pagination, streaming, etc.)

     [22] https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/issues/16

   <FarshidT> Example pagination: [23]https://demo.linksmart.eu/
   thing-directory/td

     [23] https://demo.linksmart.eu/thing-directory/td

   Farshid: Different ways to do it.

   Farshid explains the example

   christian adds some suggestions to improve it.

   Andrea adds a potential solution for it.

   Farshid: Not very efficient way to do it.

   Andrea: Diagram you showed before. Makes sense to have it as an
   attribute.

   Andrea: Maybe it can hinder some developer.

   McCool: What about other formats? For example CoAP? It may
   makes problems with other protocols.

   Farshid: Do we really need this information?

   Speaking of total

   Christian: Anyone looked into the github api for it? Maybe it
   is an inspiration for this issue.

   McCool: Do we really care about the count?

   Christian: It is relevant for linked TDs.

   McCool: If I get more than 100 back my query isn't specific
   enough.

   McCool: In many cases I only care, if it is more than 1.

   Andrea: sparql has its own pagination. REST doesn't have it,
   because it returns all the TDs and it may be a lot of TDs.

   Discussion about using link-listed for it.

   Andreas has agrees with christian that this may be a solution
   for certain protocols.

   certain*

   Christian: Farshid, do you need to skip pages?

   Farshid: Not really.

   McCool: Maybe we don't have a one fits all solution for it
   here.

   McCool: Maybe we have different APIs for different use-cases
   here.

   Farshid: Maybe we don't need the parent here.

   McCool: Wrapper object complicates it.

   Farshid: I don't really follow.

   McCool explains details about it. With linked-list structure.

   Farshid explains the specific use-case they have to christian.

   McCool: Returning an array might be too big.

   Farshid: We have pagination for it.

   Christian: Why should we restrict ourselves to one TD?

   Farshid: We need to do a lot of querying for it then.

   <kaz> [24]W3C API Overview

     [24] https://w3c.github.io/w3c-api/

   Kaz: thought I had already given this comment for this topic
   several months ago, there is a similar API named "W3C API" to
   access the W3C DB. With the parameters for (1) how many items
   should be listed on a page and (2) which page should be
   displayed. REST API. My point is: we can look at the document
   to get some insight. If we want to have a count, we also need a
   field for how much data should be included in one page.

   McCool: We researched this already. We can compress it down.
   So, I would say: 16k maximum size of a TD.

   McCool: anyways, that would limit our transaction size to 16k.
   What is the reasonable size for a transaction?

   McCool: Let the implementation take care of it. In cloud may
   fine, but not on constrained devices.

   Andrea adds details to the discussion with the discovery to it.
   Farshid comments some problematic use-cases to it.

   McCool: We can take a look into. I tried to capture some points
   on it. We need to do an analysis on it.

   McCool: I think we need some examples for it. How do we
   organize it? Complex discussion. How do we do a decision on it?

   McCool: Feel like we have a lot of options with a trade-offs.
   So, we should collect it.

   McCool adds some comments to the issue.

   McCool explains some use-cases with different approaches to it.

   McCool: What are the use-cases we need to research?

   Andrea responds with the light-switch example.

   McCool: Pagination doesn't apply to search results?

   Farshid: no

   Some discussion between andrea and Cristiano about sparql,
   xpath and jsonpath in context of wot.

   McCool: If it just about the REST API, downloading the entire
   database is a rare use-cse.

   Farshid: I disagree. You are putting more pressure on the
   server with a linked-list.

   Farshid: In that case I can solve it with JSONpath.

   Farshid: Maybe querying all on once may be not so useful.

   McCool: last 5 minutes. Let's discuss next steps.

   McCool adds comments to the issue #16

   Farshid: At the current stage pagination is simple to provide.

   McCool: JSONPath etc. have solutions for this, so we have to
   make sure not to duplicate it for these protocols.

   McCool: We are out of time. We need concrete examples. Need PRs
   for it, as a starting point.

   Farshid: Agree, I can write it down.

   McCool: I keep to open it for other people.

   <kaz> [25]McCool's comments for issue 16

     [25] https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/issues/16#issuecomment-779345307

   <kaz> [adjourned]


    Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by
    [26]scribe.perl version 127 (Wed Dec 30 17:39:58 2020 UTC).

     [26] https://w3c.github.io/scribe2/scribedoc.html

Received on Monday, 1 March 2021 06:41:18 UTC