[TD-TF] minutes - 2 December 2020

available at:
  https://www.w3.org/2020/12/02-wot-td-minutes.html

also as text below.

Thanks a lot for taking the notes, Ege!

Kazuyuki

---
   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                             WoT-WG - TD-TF

02 Dec 2020

   [2]Agenda

      [2] https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#December_2.2C_2020

Attendees

   Present
          Kaz_Ashimura, Daniel_Peintner, Michael_McCool,
          Taki_Kamiya, Sebastian_Kaebisch, Ege_Korkan,
          Tomoaki_Mizushima

   Regrets
          Michael_Lagally

   Chair
          Sebastian

   Scribe
          kaz, Ege

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Plans for the next calls
         2. [5]Prev minutes
         3. [6]Defer issues to TD 2.0
         4. [7]Issue 1011 and PR 1013
         5. [8]PR 1013
         6. [9]Issue 1003 and PR 1012
         7. [10]Issue 950 and PR 995
         8. [11]Remaining issues
         9. [12]Issue 890 - Consider adding keyword to describe
            synchronous actions
        10. [13]Issue 1010 -
            https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/10
            10
        11. [14]Issue 1007 -
            https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/10
            07
     * [15]Summary of Action Items
     * [16]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <kaz> scribenick: kaz

Plans for the next calls

   Sebastian: we'll have a call on 9th and 16th
   ... then may skip 23rd

   Daniel: Scripting do the same

   Sebastian: Dec 30 and Jan 6 will be cancelled

Prev minutes

   [17]Nov-25

     [17] https://www.w3.org/2020/11/25-wot-td-minutes.html

   Sebastian: (goes through the minutes)
   ... any objections to approve them?

   (none)

   (approved)

   [18]Nov-18

     [18] https://www.w3.org/2020/11/18-wot-td-minutes.html

   Sebastian: (goes through the minutes)
   ... any objections to approve them?

   (approved)

Defer issues to TD 2.0

   [19]possible issues to be deferred to 2.0

     [19] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:"Defer+to+TD+2.0"

   Sebastian: those are the issues can't be solved for 1.1
   ... would break the compatibility with 1.0
   ... for example, issue 803 should be deferred

   [20]Issue 803

     [20] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/803

   Sebastian: if you think some of them should be addressed for
   1.1, please let me know
   ... will continue to review the remaining issue and identify
   which to be deferred to 2.0

Issue 1011 and PR 1013

PR 1013

   [21]Issue 1011

     [21] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1011

   Sebastian: "5.4" appears twice within the title of section 5.4

   [22]PR 1013

     [22] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1013

   Sebastian: PR 1013 fixes the Issue 1011

   Daniel: there was a section number of "5.4" directly put there,
   so removed it

   Sebastian: any objections?

   (none)

   (merged)

   (Issue 1011 also closed)

Issue 1003 and PR 1012

   [23]Issue 1003

     [23] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1003

   [24]PR 1012 which fixes Issue 1003

     [24] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1012

   Sebastian: merged 1012
   ... and closed Issue 1003

Issue 950 and PR 995

   [25]Issue 950

     [25] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/950

   [26]PR 995 which fixed Issue 950

     [26] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/995

   Sebastian: (goes through the PR)
   ... (also quickly skim the preview)
   ... merges PR 995
   ... and closed Issue 950

Remaining issues

Issue 890 - Consider adding keyword to describe synchronous actions

   [27]Issue 890

     [27] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/890

   Sebastian: (goes through the issue)

   McCool: need to handle error response

   Ege: got a comment from Ben Francis too

   [28]Ben's comments

     [28] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/890#issuecomment-616682122

   Kaz: would agree Ben and think adding synchronization
   capability to TD would be too much
   ... maybe we could reuse the existing synchronizing mechanism

   Ege: this use case itself is just discussing synchronous
   invocation vs asynchronous

   Kaz: if we use asynchronous mechanism, we need to manage the
   time synchronization of each data communication

   <McCool> (note that "synchronous" just means that response
   happens only after action is complete, and can include
   success/failure in that response)

   Kaz: I do understand the point "here" is not time
   synchronization
   ... however, if we provide asynchronous invoking of a Thing, we
   should provide additional time synchronization capability to
   mashup multiple Things in the end

   McCool: it's important to think about the ordering of actions

   Kaz: yeah, at least we should provide some mechanism to manage
   the order of expected invocations

   Sebastian: in that case, can you create another issue on that
   viewpoint, Kaz?

   Kaz: will do

   <scribe> ACTION: kaz to create another issue on management of
   the order of events/invocations (possibly time synchronization
   in the end)

   Sebastian: your assumption is many IoT use cases would require
   asynchronous communication?

   Ege: right

   Sebastian: I asked about that because we need to see which
   communication pattern is really needed
   ... maybe we should ask Michael Lagally about Oracle Cloud as
   well

   McCool: we should make asynchronous default

   Kaz: but it depends on the protocols' capability
   ... UDP-based protocols would allow it
   ... but how to handle it with HTTP-based protocols?

   Ege: would cause a timeout

   McCool: we need to come back to how to handle the errors

   Sebastian: seems it would be useful to have the capability of
   "asynchronous" itself
   ... but how to deal with it?
   ... Ege, can you work on a PR?
   ... maybe together with Lagally?

   Ege: ok

   <scribe> scribenick: Ege

Issue 1010 -
[29]https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1010

     [29] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1010

   Sebastian: Do you want to add exclusiveMaximum as well

   Ege: not really, but they just exist in JSON Schema

   Sebastian: They exist in XML Schema as well? but are not
   heavily used

   McCool: Also mathematically, these terms are inclusive
   ... Not sure about how much exclusiveMin/Max are used
   ... We should update our definitions to be aligned with JSON
   Schema

   Daniel: I think that the overhead from our side to add
   exclusive min max is not high

   Sebastian: Not sure if there is enough interest in this

   Daniel: But what happens when the models exist elsewhere?

   [30]http://json-schema.org/understanding-json-schema/reference/
   numeric.html

     [30] http://json-schema.org/understanding-json-schema/reference/numeric.html

   at the end of this

   McCool: I am for including this term

   Sebastian: any objections to include it?

   (no objections)

   Ege: The older versions have boolean for exlusive min max

   McCool: How do we handle versions of JSON Schema
   ... what if they include breaking changes

   Ege: There is a breaking change regarding items

   McCool: Could you create an issue?

   Ege: yes creating now

   Sebastian: So we should clarify this in the 1.1

Issue 1007 -
[31]https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1007

     [31] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1007

   <kaz> [32]5.3.2.4 NumberSchema

     [32] https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/#numberschema

   <inserted> scribenick: kaz

   McCool: we've been discussing canonicalization during the
   discovery calls
   ... wondering about if the framing discussion would be useful
   to this issue

   Sebastian: what would be the concrete proposal here?

   Ege: remove the word "Only" here

   Sebastian: ok

   Kaz: removing "Only" from all of "minimum", "maximum" and
   "multipleOf" here?

   Ege: yes, all of them related to IntegerSchema

   Kaz: but that means they would be applicable to the other types
   as well
   ... is that OK?
   ... also removing "Only" from all the definitions at 5.3.2.4,
   5.3.2.5 and 5.3.2.7?

   Ege: yes

   Kaz: however, would it be really the right thing for us to
   remove "only" here for the Thing Description as a
   specification?

   McCool: the generator should be strict and the parser should
   allow it
   ... technically, we should use different terms to avoid the
   problem with the parser

   Kaz: yeah
   ... given the time, let's talk about this next week again

   Sebastian: would like to see the backward compatibility too

   [adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

   [NEW] ACTION: kaz to create another issue on management of the
   order of events/invocations (possibly time synchronization in
   the end)

Summary of Resolutions

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


    Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by
    David Booth's [33]scribe.perl version ([34]CVS log)
    $Date: 2020/12/16 08:19:16 $

     [33] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm
     [34] http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/

Received on Wednesday, 16 December 2020 08:22:55 UTC