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[wot-ig/wg] minutes - 24 July 2019

From: Kazuyuki Ashimura <ashimura@w3.org>
Date: Mon, 29 Jul 2019 16:59:05 +0900
Message-ID: <CAJ8iq9Vq5ns0xnvov=0E_OBWzDiHAMmuQiFg+YJCGY=N=+jhJw@mail.gmail.com>
To: Public Web of Things IG <public-wot-ig@w3.org>, public-wot-wg@w3.org
available at:
  https://www.w3.org/2019/07/24-wot-minutes.html

also as text below.

Thanks a lot for taking the minutes, TakI!

Kazuyuki

---

   [1]W3C

      [1] http://www.w3.org/

                               - DRAFT -

                               WoT-IG/WG

24 Jul 2019

   [2]Agenda

      [2] https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#24_July_2019

Attendees

   Present
          Kaz_Ashimura, Taki, Kamiya, MichaelMcCool,
          Daniel_Peintner, Toru_Kawaguchi, Takahisa_Suzuki,
          Kunihikos_Toumura, Ryuichi_Matsukura, Tomoaki_Mizushima,
          Sebastian_Kaebisch, Michael_Lagally, Dave_Raggett,
          Zoltan_Kis

   Regrets
          Michael_Koster

   Chair
          McCool

   Scribe
          TK

Contents

     * [3]Topics
         1. [4]Quick updates
               o [5]IETF meeting
               o [6]Possible project review on WoT
               o [7]Next meeting
         2. [8]F2F/WS minutes
         3. [9]IG charter
         4. [10]WG charter
         5. [11]Joint call with TAG
         6. [12]Feedback from PING
         7. [13]TF reports
               o [14]Architecture
               o [15]Scripting API
               o [16]Thing Description/Binding Templates
               o [17]Scripting API (revisted)
         8. [18]Dedicated call for the WG Charter discussion?
         9. [19]PlugFest call
     * [20]Summary of Action Items
     * [21]Summary of Resolutions
     __________________________________________________________

   <scribe> scribe: TK

   <kaz> scribenick: taki

Quick updates

* IETF meeting

   McCool: IETF meeting, I gave presentation on WoT.
   ... I will make a presentation.

* Possible project review on WoT

   <Zakim> kaz, you wanted to mention one topic for the quick
   update

   Kaz: There was a W3C Team interal call last week and the team
   suggested we have a dedicated tutorial during the project
   review slot on Thursday. McCool/Matthias (or Kaz) should give
   presentation there.

* Next meeting

   McCool: Next week, I am not available. The week after next
   works fine.
   ... if Matthias is not available either next Wednesday, Kaz can
   chair the main call.

   Kaz: Yes, I can chair the call for you.
   ... note we should schedule joint calls, one with TAG, another
   with PING at some point.

   McCool: I met Wendy at IETF here.
   ... I had a chance to update on WoT.

   (detail on discussion with PING later in this call)

F2F/WS minutes

   McCool: anybody has updates on minutes?

   <kaz> [22]workshop minutes

     [22] https://www.w3.org/WoT/ws-2019/minutes.html

   <kaz> [23]f2f minutes

     [23] https://www.w3.org/2019/06/wot-f2f/06-07-wot-minutes.html

   McCool typing in a resolution...

   <McCool> Proposal: WG/IG accepts the WoT Workshop minutes.

   RESOLUTION: WG/IG accepts the WoT Workshop and the WoT F2F
   minutes from Munich.

   McCool: Workshop report?

   Kaz: work in progress.
   ... will have discussion with Lagally and Sebastian after the
   PlugFest call today.

IG charter

   McCool: We looked at Wendy's comments.
   ... Exploration tasks without context...
   ... She suggests to explain it in Explainer.
   ... But we cannot describe new things in Explainer.
   ... We need an explainer for the charter.
   ... I am going to create an issue for this.

   McCool created issue #845...

   <inserted> [24]Issue 845

     [24] https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues

   McCool: Let me assign to me for now. Matthias and Sebastian
   too.
   ... next Alan's comment.
   ... Did we merge #838 last time?

   Kaz: not yet.

   McCool: any comment?
   ... We will merge this next time.
   ... any comments on IG?
   ... I need to finish Alan's comment, next week can have a
   resolution to submit.

   Kaz: the next steps are (1) get back to W3M, (2) get their
   approval and (3) send the draft IG Charter to the AC review for
   a month

WG charter

   McCool: Let's discuss next week, and should have a team to
   draft the charter.

Joint call with TAG

   McCool: unfortunately, we were not allowed to join the TAG main
   call today.
   ... We will find different slot for a joint call.

Feedback from PING

   McCool: we also want to have a call with PING.
   ... TD issue #794

   <inserted>
   [25]https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/794 TD
   Issue 794

     [25] https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/794

   McCool: @samuelweiler responded.

   Sebastian: IETF meeting this week, so maybe McCool can talk
   with Samuel in person there.
   ... We need to explain to PING what we did in the document.
   ... we cannot prevent one from exposing private data.

   McCool: I will meet with Samuel Weiler.
   ... Additional use cases and alternatives were asked to
   provide.
   ... There are not use cases described in section 9 in TD spec.
   ... Let's organize a meeting.
   ... timing is an issue.
   ... We should use doodle.
   ... We can also do offline work first.

   Lagally: anything else missing?

   McCool: we have risks and mitigation
   ... removing ID was proposed, which makes implementor's work
   difficult.
   ... We can discuss this kind of design alternatives.
   ... about the purpose of the system in addition to system
   functionality is compromised.
   ... can also address the risk of getting people tracked

   Lagally: HTML has similar privacy risks.

   McCool: IoT has greater risks than HTML.
   ... I do not want to downplay the risks.
   ... We can explain design choice.
   ... One-on-one call with Samuel first, may be a choice.

   Kaz: note that there are now three co-Chairs for PING, and we
   should involve all of them in the loop.

   McCool: BTW, did we officially make a request Samuel for
   security review?

   Kaz: do you mean "did we?" or "should we?" ?
   ... don't think we officially asked him or PING to review our
   specs from *security* viewpoints because we already had asked
   TAG for their security reviews

   McCool: I talked with Wendy, and was suggested to ask Samuel
   for security review.
   ... Kaz, you can talk with Wendy.
   ... Security may be a small delta for him in addition to
   privacy.

   Kaz: we should also double check if Sam's comment was given as
   PING's official review to make sure.
   ... I thought we expected more concrete comments from PING.
   ... probably we should provide some more clarification, and so
   I think it would be better to have a joint call with PING
   again.

   McCool: we can also update our explainer documents.
   ... on design alternatives for privacy.

   Kaz: We should clarify their requirements.
   ... In the first joint PING call, they agreed to provide
   comments on our documents.
   ... but some of the points may be already addressed in the
   proposed next charter.

   McCool: I will try to find Samuel here in IETF meetings.

   Kaz: We've been exchanging several emails (CCing the WoT
   Chairs), so if you want, I can communicate with Samuel and the
   PING co-chairs on that thread (ccing the WoT Chairs).

   McCool: The next 2-3 weeks, it is difficult to schedule a call.
   ... I'll talk with Samuel, and get back to the group after
   that.

   Kaz: During TD call last week, it was suggested to have a joint
   call with PING.
   ... I proposed to have a joint discussion in TPAC but it may be
   too late.

   Sebastian: Teleconference may work better. GitHub results in
   ping pong.
   ... unfortunately, it is a vacation season for the next couple
   of weeks.
   ... we can have a telecon early September, then discuss further
   in TPAC.

   McCool: Face-to-face format is good to make resolution.
   ... If we can resolve issues in telecon, that is good, but we
   can still meet in TPAC.

   Kaz: We need to prepare something to explain what we did.
   ... Explainer was not enough.

   Lagally: We can still try to sort it out in the next 1-2 weeks
   given issue on GitHub.
   ... Samuel wants a large re-write of the spec.

   McCool: Also we were asked to provide use cases and design
   alternatives.
   ... I agree our spec is not ready till we address that.
   ... I will also write that there are issues even without id.

   Lagally: mobile phone also has unique identifier.

   McCool: making id optional is a normative change. we provide a
   mitigation to make id mutable.

   Lagally: it may contain arbitrary information.

   McCool: temporary id also works.
   ... there are other ways to track a device other than id.

   Lagally: We can first try to solve issue on GitHub. This does
   not involve spec changes.

   Kaz: note that we should include all PING's 3 co-chairs in the
   discussion.

   McCool: current mitigation was considered inadequate in the
   GitHUb comment.
   ... We can also ask which use cases they are concerned with
   most.

   Kaz: In the end, we should have a joint call with PING.
   ... GitHub discussion in parallel would be also useful in the
   meantime before the call.

   McCool: I will ask for clarification as a next step.
   ... I will also bring HTML metaphor though will not stress much
   on that point.

   Kaz: note that the "HTML vs JavaScript" metafor for "Thing
   Description vs Scripting API" might be rather confusing
   ... maybe it would be better to directly mention TD is a data
   model based on JSON-LD.

   McCool: if we can limit privacy risks, we should do it though.

   Kaz: I'm still unsure if we can resolve all the issues just via
   the GitHub Issues.

   Sebastian: McCool can talk with Samuel in IETF meeting to
   discuss how to proceed on GitHub.

   McCool: We should schedule joint call ASAP.
   ... Lagally, Matthias, Sebastian and I can join.

   Kaz: I can also propose a call on the email thread if you want.

   McCool is summarizing this PING discussion...

TF reports

* Architecture

   Lagally: I cannot make architecture call this week.
   ... next week and the week after, I will be on vacation.

* Scripting API

   Zoltan: we had a call this week to discuss TAG issues.
   ... next week, we will skip telecon.

* Thing Description/Binding Templates

   Sebastian: we are concentrated more on binding templates.
   ... Ege and Koster are moderating the discussion.
   ... I may be on vacation in the middle of August.

* Scripting API (revisted)

   Kaz: Zoltan, you want to have document approved for
   publication?

   Zoltan: the previous approval should apply.
   ... since we made on small changes.
   ... also can wait till the end of vacation

Dedicated call for the WG Charter discussion?

   Kaz: no architecture call tomorrow.
   ... on the other hand, we can have another dedicated call for
   the WG charter discussion.

   Lagally: make sense.
   ... this week is good.

   McCool: I am at IETF.
   ... Friday may work for me.
   ... this time slot.
   ... who else wants to join? Sebastian?

   Sebastian: Yes
   ... I have a conflict but after TD call works.

   McCool: TD call is 2am for me.

   Sebastian: let's schedule a call on email.

   Kaz: I can make a small doodle.

   McCool is proposing 4 time slots: 6am/7am on Thu/Fri (EDT)

   Lagally: TD call on Friday.
   ... we had a discussion on profile.
   ... It was suggested to have discussion in the main call.

   McCool: It can be part of charter discussion.
   ... Let's discuss on next main call.
   ... on Aug 31.

   Lagally: I will dial in next week.

   McCool: I will be on vacation next week.

PlugFest call

   Lagally: please stay in this call for demo discussion session.

   Sebastian: Christian will join the call.

   Lagally: #wot-pf channel.

   <mlagally> We will use the main call bridge for the demo
   preparation call, [26]http://irc.w3.org/?channels=wot-pf

     [26] http://irc.w3.org/?channels=wot-pf

   <kaz> [adjourned]

Summary of Action Items

Summary of Resolutions

    1. [27]WG/IG accepts the WoT Workshop and the WoT F2F minutes
       from Munich.

   [End of minutes]
     __________________________________________________________


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