Re: [whatwg] HTML6 proposal for single-page apps without Javascript

 

Hi all: 

I see some interesting things and a correc t approach of the MVC model
-- speaking in terms of theory -- in the original proposal of Bobby. 

Let me tell you something funny: 

 	* I do not see any unconvenient working with <tags>, as bones, because
for, as far as I remember, my firsts experiences in the web were using
<tag> , a programming language named _Coldfusion_. 1995. Anyone've heard
of it?
 	* To me , the proposal of Bobby for the HMTL6 spec reminds me subtly
that way of work, perfectly defined then and now as MVC. No kidding.
 	* Later, years later it came ECMAScript, I guess. For this the success
of ActionSCript/flash, ECMaScript based in C and Perl, with a clear
advantage over the Java plugins and the non-permitted Javascript ( in
the banking sphere, for example )
 	* We might have in mind that The websites , since few years ago, were
no made by developers, just few developers/programmers. It was the need
of communication and self-publishing what spread the web. Developers
were not then neither in its inception. Have a look at the forums and
silos from 1006 till 2004 and you will agree with me. A professional
coder is a professional coder.As far as I remember, developers were
focused on something that in our days days is not really well paid, if
it still exist, and if it is even get paid (joke). That was Middelware.
Now the money is in the web. Making grammar for the web to produce
hipertext. A simple TCP/Ip protocol.
 	* But HTML goes far from this, as we old cows knew. HTML is useful in
the MAIL/SMTP protocol, in the GOPHER protocol as well as in a lot of
scenarios aside from the HTTP/S/S2 we visit everyday.
 	* With all those protocols in mind, back then, designers ( like the
future ones Bobby is referring to ) , without being trained developers,
and coming from a background in the use of Hypercard and Graphical
computers start to learn to code for the web. The Mosaic (Netscape) now
dissapeared. After this, it came the need of standards and the oblivion
of VBScript, JScript, and Tables. As far as I remember, you might buy a
PowerPC station and you still were recommended to disable the CSS for (
a lovely declarative-imperative language, that inherits directly from C,
considered by then an afficionado and non-coder language ) "for a better
navigation". That was in 2002, I guess.
 	* When I see people coding in a Terminal , I have a flashback as if I
were at secondary school. Of course there is the need to know to code,
as there is a need to know grammar. The need for this is simple: To use
properly a language. In our case, the language of the web.

Etcetera. Sorry for the verbose. I see all arguments right , and I
perceive both side of the positions explained in this mailing list. But
I do consider realy interesting the approach Bobby has made. 

Far more interesting ( appreciating the good use of JSON he explains )
that keeping alive a lovely language that some of us we have been using
for more than 15 years. 

I look and wait after the ECMAScript6 proposal, but I still have in mind
there was a web, once where no javascruipt was needed. And it worked
pretty well. 

My apologies for the verbose. Have all a good day. 

Regards 

---

Delfi Ramirez

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twitter: delfinramirez

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http://segonquart.net [4]

http://delfiramirez.info
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On 2015-04-02 21:22, Rimantas Liubertas wrote: 

> There are fundamental problems with your proposal, namely: 1) it relies on some undefined magic I believe that's called "programming".

So that poor fashion designer will have to learn to program after all...

>> 2) it changes HTML to something entirely different.
> To what? HTML already has things like <SCRIPT> and other features not related to hypertext markup.

I don't know to what, I never saw any examples how your MVC would look
like.
Would you care to show how something like
http://backbonejs.org/docs/todos.html [6] would look if
done your way?

>> 3) you assume that those not willing to learn Javascript will somehow know how to use the features you propose without learning. How?
> They use HTML, which is far more widespread than Javascript.

But they don't do MVC with pure HTML.

> There's a reason this proposal has gone viral outside of this list.

Good luck.

Best regards,
Rimantas

 

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Received on Friday, 3 April 2015 00:16:34 UTC