- From: Nicholas Zakas <nzakas@yahoo-inc.com>
- Date: Wed, 24 Feb 2010 12:44:01 -0800
I think there's always going to be a disconnect between browser developers and web developers, since we're both living in very different worlds. Like I said, I'm all for making cookie access more rational (as if one could argue that it has been at all rational to this point). Right now, though, I can't see a benefit to switching from any of the current synchronous approaches to an asynchronous one, as it doesn't give me enough added benefit. The asynchronous approach may be the most performant and potentially the easiest to implement, but if it's out there and everyone is still using document.cookie, is there really a net gain? -Nicholas ______________________________________________ Commander Lock: "Damnit Morpheus, not everyone believes what you believe!" Morpheus: "My beliefs do not require them to." ________________________________ From: jorlow@google.com [mailto:jorlow@google.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Orlow Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2010 12:20 PM To: David Flanagan Cc: Peter Kasting; whatwg; Nicholas Zakas; Darin Fisher; Adam Barth Subject: Re: [whatwg] HTML Cookie API On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:07 PM, David Flanagan <david at davidflanagan.com> wrote: Jeremy Orlow wrote: Also note that the spec currently has the notion of a storage mutex which should be taken whenever a script tries to access a cookie (or local storage) and is held until the script finishes. The network stack is also supposed to take this lock whenever getting or setting a cookie. No one has implemented the storage mutex or stated any intention of doing so because this is basically impossible today. But, if there were an asynchronous API that most people were using, it actually could be possible that we'd want to implement such a mutex since cookies would then obey run to completion semantics without having serious lock contention. Well if no one is going to implement the storage mutex, then I probably need to retract my last message But yeah. Definitely any API that touches information spanning tabs (and probably even APIs spanning origins within those tabs) really should be designed in an async manor from now on. Otherwise we're just digging the whole deeper in terms of forcing ourselves into a single threaded world. J I worry that this comes down to web developers who want simple APIs vs browser implementors who say we can't have them (at least not if we also want speed.) Concurrency issues are not my strong suit, but shouldn't it be possible to have safe, synchronous read-only access to cookies (caching volatile values like cookies within each thread and then clearing that cache when the thread returns to the event loop). Can't the requirement for a mutex or an asynchronous API be limited to setCookie()? >From a technical standpoint, this is very doable. And, done right, I think I could be in favor of it. But I believe the counter argument is that any relaxation of run to completion semantics is going to confuse developers and probably result in them writing racy code without realizing it. Many developers won't understand when it's safe to use the cached value vs needing to use the asynchronous interface. And if the less safe one is easier to use.... I agree that asynchronous interfaces have disadvantages, but as far as I can tell many of them are costs that you pay once (learning them and getting use to them) or once per app (if you handle one asynchronous call or need to use setTimeout, then probably using another won't require too much restructuring of your code). Maybe I'm just a browser developer who's completely out of touch with reality though. :-) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.whatwg.org/pipermail/whatwg-whatwg.org/attachments/20100224/cc227279/attachment-0001.htm>
Received on Wednesday, 24 February 2010 12:44:01 UTC