- From: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
- Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2010 01:08:25 +0000 (UTC)
On Tue, 25 May 2010, Silvia Pfeiffer wrote: > > We've in the past talked about how there is a need to adapt the bitrate > version of a audio or video resource that is being delivered to a user > agent based on the available bandwidth on the network, the available CPU > cycles, and possibly other conditions. > > It has been discussed to do this using @media queries and providing > links to alternative versions of a media resources through the <source> > element inside it. But this is a very inflexible solution, since the > side conditions for choosing a bitrate version may change over time and > what is good at the beginning of video playback may not be good 2 > minutes later (in particular if you're on a mobile device driving > through town). > > Further, we have discussed the need for supporting a live streaming > approach such as RTP/RTSP - but RTP/RTSP has its own "non-Web" issues > that will make it difficult to make it part of a Web application > framework - in particular it request a custom server and won't just work > with a HTTP server. > > In recent times, vendors have indeed started moving away from custom > protocols and custom servers and have moved towards more intelligence in > the UA and special approaches to streaming over HTTP. > > Microsoft developed "Smooth Streaming", Apple developed "HTTP Live > Streaming" and Adobe recently launched "HTTP Dynamic Streaming". (Also > see a comparison at). As these vendors are working on it for MPEG files, > so are some people for Ogg. I'm not aware anyone is looking at it for > WebM yet. > > Standards bodies haven't held back either. The 3GPP organisation have > defined 3GPP adaptive HTTP Streaming (AHS) in their March 2010 release 9 > of 3GPP. Now, MPEG has started consolidating approaches for adaptive > bitrate streaming over HTTP for MPEG file formats. > > Adaptive bitrate streaming over HTTP is the correct approach towards > solving the double issues of adapting to dynamic bandwidth availability, > and of providing a live streaming approach that is reliable. > > Right now, no standard exists that has been proven to work in a > format-independent way. This is particularly an issue for HTML5, where > we want at least support for MPEG4, Ogg Theora/Vorbis, and WebM. > > I know that it is not difficult to solve this issue in a > format-independent way, which is why solutions are jumping up > everywhere. They are, however, not compatible and create a messy > environment where people have to install solutions for multiple > different approaches to make sure they are covered for different > platforms, different devices, and different formats. It's a clear > situation where a new standard is necessary. > > The standard basically needs to provide three different things: > * authoring of content in a specific way > * description of the alternative files on the server and their > features for the UA to download and use for switching > * a means to easily switch mid-way between these alternative files On Mon, 24 May 2010, Chris Holland wrote: > > I don't have something decent to offer for the first and last bullets > but I'd like to throw-in something for the middle bullet: > > The http protocol is vastly under-utilized today when it comes to URIs > and the various Accept* headers. > > Today developers might embed an image in a document as chris.png. Web > daemons know to find that resource and serve it, in this sense, > chris.png is a resource locator. > > Technically one might reference the image as a resource identifier named > "chris". The user's browser may send "image/gif" as the only value of an > accept header, signaling the following to the server: "I'm supposed to > download an image of chris here, but I only support gif, so don't bother > sending me a .png". In a perhaps more useful scenario the user agent may > tell the server "don't bother sending me an image, I'm a screen reader, > do you have anything my user could listen to?". In this sense, the > document's author didn't have to code against or account for every > possible "context" out there, the author merely puts a reference to a > higher-level representation that should remain forward-compatible with > evolving servers and user-agents. > > By passing a list of accepted mimetypes, the accept http header provides > this ability to serve context-aware resources, which starts to feel like > a contender for catering to your middle bullet. > > To that end, new mime-types could be defined to encapsulate media > type/bit rate combinations. > > Or the accept header might remain confined to media types and acceptable > bit rate information might get encapsulated into a new header, such as: > X-Accept-Bitrate . > > If you combined the above approach with existing standards for http byte > range requests, there may be a mechanism there to cater to your 3rd > bullet as well: when network conditions deteriorate, the client could > interrupt the current stream and issue a new request "where it left off" > to the server. Although this likel wouldn't work because a byte range > request would mean nothing on files of two different sizes. For > playbacked media, time codes would be needed to define range. On Tue, 25 May 2010, Silvia Pfeiffer wrote: > > That's not quite sufficient, actually. You need to know which byte range > to retrieve or which file segment. Apple solved it by introducing a m3u8 > file format, Microsoft by introducing a SMIL-based server manifest file, > Adobe by introducing a XML-based Flash Media Manifest file F4M. That > kind of complexity canot easily be transferred through HTTP headers. > > The idea of the manifest file is to provide matching transition points > between the different files of different bitrate to segments or byte > ranges. This information has to somehow come to the UA (amongst other > information as available in typical manifest files). I don't think that > can be achieved without a manifest file. On Fri, 28 May 2010, Jeroen Wijering wrote: > > Indeed, one such key condition is the current dimensions of the video > window. Tracking this condition allows user-agents to: > > *) Not waste bandwidth, e.g. by pushing a 720p video in a 320x180 video > tag. > > *) Respond to changes in the video display, e.g. when the video is > switched to fullscreen playback. > > Providing the different media options using <source> elements might > still work out fine, if there's a clearly defined API that covers all > scenarios. A rough example: > > <video> > <source bitrate="100" height="120" src="video_100.mp4" type="video/mp4; codecs='avc1.42E01E, mp4a.40.2'; keyframe-interval='00:02'" width="160"> > <source bitrate="500" height="240" src="video_500.mp4" type="video/mp4; codecs='avc1.42E01E, mp4a.40.2'; keyframe-interval ='00:02'" width="320"> > <source bitrate="900" height="540" src="video_900.mp4" type="video/mp4; codecs='avc1.42E01E, mp4a.40.2'; keyframe-interval ='00:02'" width="720"> > </video> > > This example would tell the user-agent that the three MP4 files have a > keyframe-interval of 2 seconds - which of course raises the issue that > fixed keyframe-intervals would be required. > > The user-agent can subsequently use e.g. the Media Fragments API to > request chunks, switching between sources as the conditions change. It seems to me that we are not lacking in solutions in this space -- it would behoove us to try to leverage the existing solutions rather than making up new ones. Have the above solutions been tried in browsers? -- Ian Hickson U+1047E )\._.,--....,'``. fL http://ln.hixie.ch/ U+263A /, _.. \ _\ ;`._ ,. Things that are impossible just take longer. `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Received on Thursday, 19 August 2010 18:08:25 UTC