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[whatwg] Some discrepencies and example remarks

From: Yuvalik Webdesign <postmaster@yuvalik.org>
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:06:35 +0300
Message-ID: <001001ca4b3c$d49b9f10$7dd2dd30$@org>
> From: Ian Hickson 
> 
> > C) When talking about outline (in the context of sectioning) I gather
> we
> > are NOT talking about the DOM-tree, but about (a Table Of) Contents
> kind
> > of outline.
> 
> Right.
> 
> 
> > Does a generic page-header and footer (containing a site-wide logo,
> > style and navigation) belong in such an outline? If not, does this
> mean
> > it has to be enclosed in a separate SECTION element? Nothing about
> this
> > is made clear either in wording or examples.
> 
> I don't understand why this is a question. Why would it not belong in
> the
> outline?

Because of the fact the outline is a sort of TOC, and sometimes stuff that goes in a <header> doesn't belong in a TOC (since it is not content in the strictest sense of the word). But I think Tab Atkins answered this by giving me the advice not to over-think this too much. And he is probably right.


> > The spec is not very clear anywhere about styling practices (I know
> this
> > is CSS' job, but within HTML the mark-up should at least be
> mentioned).
> 
> Could you elaborate on what you had in mind? Note that default styles
> are
> listed in detail in their own section.

I know, but that was not what I had in mind. I wish there were some examples that showed the difference in mark-ups between using <section>, <article> etc. and <div>. Again, maybe I am trying too much here, but let me explain:

When starting a job you get content from the client (well, hopefully ;-) You start out by categorizing and sorting this content; this process can be an actual job you do, or something you do "subconsciously" while working at the site. In an ideal situation, it is easy to sort the content in two categories: content that belongs in the outline and pure lay-out. But sometimes this choice is not so black and white. In those cases, one designer may use a <div> while another may use a <section> or an <aside>. 
Now I am not saying the spec should educate on this (as it has been mentioned, this is a job for tutorial sites etc.), but what I am saying is that it may be prudent to use more complex examples in the spec that address the difference in when to use <section> etc. and when to use <div> to make the line less gray.


> 
> Please file specific bugs or send specific e-mails for each example you
> think should be reworked; there are over 300 examples in the spec and
> without knowing what is wrong with each one, if I just go through them
> all
> and change them, they're just going to go from one kind of bad example
> to
> another kind of bad example.

I'd be perfectly happy to provide you with some examples, but I hope you will give me some helpfull feedback if I make a mistake in them. I will rework the examples for sectioning elements. Is a time-frame of two weeks ok with you?

> 
> > Perhaps a small example, currently I am working on a site where
> content
> > which is generally regarded as a header, is placed as a sidebar on
> the
> > lower right of the page. It only contains a logo and a slideshow. Is
> > this a <header> or is this a <div>?
> 
> Can you provide the URI? I would be happy to take a look, and maybe
> base
> an example in the spec on this.
> 

As I am still working in the site it is local, so no URI. Also I am somewhat uncomfortable with sending you the source-code as it is rather messy right now (I had to rework the site as the client had some new ideas he wanted to try out).
I will try to include this code in the examples I will send.

Thanks for your answers,
Evert
Received on Monday, 12 October 2009 06:06:35 UTC

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