W3C home > Mailing lists > Public > whatwg@whatwg.org > June 2007

[whatwg] several messages about discouraged things

From: Ian Hickson <ian@hixie.ch>
Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 04:16:20 +0000 (UTC)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0706190407260.26929@dhalsim.dreamhost.com>
On Sat, 24 Feb 2007, Keryx Web wrote:
> Speaking from __my__ experience, and the experience of those (too few) 
> colleagues that I've met in Sweden who teach standards based web 
> development, it is hard too make the student understand that something 
> is wrong if he/she "get's away with it".


> I would like the spec to clearly state what is allowed for backwards 
> compatibility only and what is the preferred way of marking up content.

The spec doesn't allow anything purely for backwards compatibility.

> I would like a spec that clearly says that some ways of marking up 
> content is detrimental to accessibility and perhaps also usability. E.g. 
> frames, including the iframe, or tables used for layout. You would not 
> believe how many colleagues of mine who actually teach that frames are a 
> good thing. My nephew, who studies i a nearby city, even had frames as a 
> required feature of his work!

Frames are out (except <iframe>, which I don't really see as being a 
problem, though let me know if I'm wrong on this). Tables for layout are 
non-conforming, though I hope to make this clearer in due course. I've 
added a note to myself in the spec to remind myself of this.

On Sun, 25 Feb 2007, Keryx Web wrote:
> A few examples that I think is bad practice (99.9 % of the time it's used):
> - Inline styles

The media-specific evils of style="", if it is allowed at all, will indeed 
be called out explicitly.

> - Empty p-elements, or p elements containing only &nbsp;

The former will be allowed, as there are valid use cases (usually 
involving script). I'd like to ban the latter, but I'm not sure how to do 
it. Any suggestions?

> - A table within a table cell (Has this ever been used for anything but 
> layout?)

There are valid uses of that, though they are rare. But layout tables in 
general will be discouraged (and are non-conforming).

> - Iframes

Why are they bad?

Ian Hickson               U+1047E                )\._.,--....,'``.    fL
http://ln.hixie.ch/       U+263A                /,   _.. \   _\  ;`._ ,.
Things that are impossible just take longer.   `._.-(,_..'--(,_..'`-.;.'
Received on Monday, 18 June 2007 21:16:20 UTC

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