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Meeting Notes, 13 May 2014

From: Amelia Bellamy-Royds <amelia.bellamy.royds@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 13 May 2014 12:49:44 -0600
Message-ID: <CAFDDJ7y0Q8n=0Jm9ySxTyyHsCXT7J+_boFUYE8UWGwwnbJJfeA@mail.gmail.com>
To: "public-webplatform@w3.org" <public-webplatform@w3.org>
IRC transcript of the WebPlatform Docs teleconference of 13 May 2014
Chaired by Dough Schepers (shepazu)
Scribed by Amelia Bellamy-Royds (AmeliaBR)

shepazu & Julee:  Discussing scheduling of telecon re DocSprint Europe

... was scheduled for Friday, but will try to reschedule

eliot:  reminder that Jay had asked for suggestion of topics for DocSprint

Julee:  Should anyone be working on the Javascript import review?

eliot:  If anyone wants to sure, but he can do it in-house at MS if

* jswisher is in the channel but not on the call

shepazu: I don't think it would hurt to invite people to work on JS clean-up

eliot: would be a task for people who don't have a lot of other experience

shepazu:  if SVG is main focus, need to make sure people are familiar

... will discuss further when everyone involved with DocSprint is available
(i.e., rescheduled telcon)

NEW TOPIC:  Topic page formatting

All agreed, minus sarcasm from shepazu, that tables are ugly and confusing

Jen:  Should only have title, not path, should be list not table

<AmeliaBR> http://docs.webplatform.org/wiki/css/properties

<AmeliaBR> ^^Example of inline query structure

<AmeliaBR> Alternative result formats for queries:

jensimmons: Would be nice to condense long lists as hierachy, possibly

AmeliaBR:  I can work on this eventually, but have other commitments already

shepazu:  is there someone else who can experiment with these queries to
figure out better output?  Can we reach out beyond our usual core of

<+eliezerb> AmeliaBR: I did some work with SMW Queries

<@renoirb> :P~

<@shepazu> eliezerb, do you have time to help with this formatting issue?

<+eliezerb> shepazu: Yes, I just need to fresh my memory about those
queries, but I'm always here to help

<+eliezerb> :-)

<@shepazu> eliezerb, let's talk after the call

<+eliezerb> cool

<eliot> Can I throw out there that this could be a list with more details
on hover or another means?

<AmeliaBR> Plan would be (a)  replace index tables with query lists (b)
examine more nuanced options when lists are really long

NEW TOPIC:  Readiness markers

jensimmons:  discussing different sample images from emails she sent out

<@renoirb> shepazu:

<@renoirb> is one of them

<@renoirb> This one has a lot of images

eliot: I find angled ribbon distracting

shepazu, renoir, AmeliaBR agree

renoirb: sidebar is neater

eliot: also similar to status markers on W3 specs

shepazu: agreed.  Was that the intention?

jensimmons: not originally, but I recognized the similarity

...there are two versions: square stripe up to the bar, or with a circle
end to mimic the logo

eliot:  I like the rounded version, webplatform's version of w3 status

renoirb: I like look, but I don't know how to do this without abuse of
absolute positioning

jensimmons:  should be possible, would like to have top of stripe move with
page but words stay fixed as you scroll

* renoirb +1 vertical bar + rivet

jensimmons:  also still need to work with colours

...what do people think?  Home page colour set versus more intuitive
green-red sequence

...want colour meaning to be obvious when someone first lands on a page

eliot: is the green-yellow-red meaning culturally independent?

jensimmons: green-yellow-red traffic signals seem to be fairly universal

julee: with the words as well, there is flexibility in the colours

eliot: because of the words, we can choose colours that are a little more

jensimmons:  colours should always be secondary for accessibility reasons,
but colours shouldn't be confusing

renoirb: another option is to incorporate icons/shapes

shepazu: don't want to dwell on colours, but am concerned about contrast
issues with yellow background

...could just swap purple and red from current colour scheme

<@renoirb> +1 on colors choice to Jen. BTW, I like the color choice anyway

julee: we can always do something, then adjust based on feedback

<@renoirb> Anyway, we aren't stuck on old IE versions so text and colors
won't need images :)

shepazu: work on the design and layout first, changing colours later is easy

jensimmons: worried about terms "coming later" is problematic, suggests
that people shouldn't work on this

AmeliaBR: "not started" might be confusing on an unreviewed import page

* renoirb just thought about "needs some love"

<@renoirb> +1 "needs work"

shepazu:  "needs work"

<@renoirb> q+

jensimmons:  "needs work" is good, since it encourages contribution

shepazu:  sounds good for now, this isn't hard to change later

...given the prominence, is it clear that status refers to article not specs

AmeliaBR:  example text box was "This article is..." but that's lost in
graphic examples

renoirb: although we want to move warnings out of the way for good content,
maybe a big warning box is a good idea in Not Started pages

jensimmons:  how to efficiently inform people of ongoing projects?

shepazu: should we not have a marker on pages that are ready to use

jensimmons: I think it's important to establish a consistent pattern

...maybe two years from now, when most pages are ready to use, we can drop
the notice

shepazu: I like the sidebar status concept, when status is more consistent
in future we can consider a different way of doing this

...e.g. for now we're using compatibility as tables, similar to MDN, in
future that might change

(tangent on how to display compatibility info tabled until future)

jensimmons: for now, let's use "Ready to Use"

AmeliaBR: should we still put the template up for now, with a <div> for the

jensimmons:  Yes, add a line of html at a place where it makes sense as
plain text/screen reader/api

renoirb: might be able to add info in http headers as well

<@renoirb> ... I think its possible to query through PHP result of your
work AmeliaBR and i'd do HTTP headers.

shepazu: Action to AmeliaBR: please go ahead with template to add this info
for jensimmons to use for styling

shepazu: talking about scheduling template updates

<+jensimmons> <div class=“readiness-marker”>This article is <a
href=“”>Ready to Use</a></div>

<+jensimmons> That HTML should also be the fallback for any browsers that
can’t use the CSS we write to make the text verticle. Old IE, etc.

<@renoirb> ... renoirb asks to know when, he'll take care of ensuring it
doesnt blow the server :)

<@renoirb> note that the next site in /upgrade/ will possibly prevent
current problems

shepazu:  IMPORTANT note: any changes to templates should be scheduled and
renoirb should be warned, so that the server queue doesn't crash

<@renoirb> Thanks for touching base with me AmeliaBR

renoirb:  timing not essential, but I need to know.  Hopefully,  next
server upgrade will take care of problem

<@renoirb> server upgrade is basically MediaWiki+SMW software upgrade

<@renoirb> (Ubuntu server version isn't related to the possible factor of
improvement on this particular issue)

<@renoirb> SMW problem is basically: A widely used template called into
another page creates jobs inside mediawiki.  There is a bug in SMW when MW
job queue is run that creates sub tasks... creating thousands and thousands
of jobs.

<@julee> Sorry. Have to run…

shepazu: Once we have readiness flags up, we will have to go through and
set good pages to ready/almost done/etc.

shepazu:  if we're going to be walking through and cataloguing, there is
also the API syntax index issues, although that could also be done at a

...we need to figure out timing.  Should we still be doing this on test
wiki when we don't have a scheduled?

jensimmons:  we should have a default, maybe nothing prints if no value
set, or just a small line out of sight?

AmeliaBR: we can do that, just not print if there is no value set in the

jensimmons: are we still going to have details note box?

AmeliaBR: last plan was details/notes would be in form, but not in the page

...the status would link to definition page, which would also tell people
to edit page to see details

shepazu: What's the plan?

AmeliaBR:  I will get things ready to go on test wiki, then roll out on
main.  What is default?

jensimmons: default should be nothing displays until the page status has
been set.

<@renoirb> We can dry run on the /upgrade/ wiki too

jensimmons: I will be working on the CSS

<@renoirb> jensimmons, AmeliaBR ^

Thanks renoirb.

<@renoirb> I can make you admin there, or just drop the database and import
a new snapshot off of the live site.

<+jensimmons> Thanks everyone!!!! I think this readiness state stuff is
really good!

<+jensimmons> I will help people understand WPD — how to use it, and how to

<@renoirb> Next time, AmeliaBR, i'll scribe

<AmeliaBR> renoirb:  whichever works for you (re upgrade wiki).  And I'll
remind you if you're late next week!

<@renoirb> np AmeliaBR.

<@renoirb> I'm busy full time on authentication ATM, if you have technical
worries, just ping me
Received on Tuesday, 13 May 2014 18:50:13 UTC

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