Re: Template limits and server loads

Switching them to HTML would be best, you can check out which tags
MediaWiki can use here if you're curious. :3

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:HTML_in_wikitext

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Eliot Graff <Eliot.Graff@microsoft.com>wrote:

>  What would be the better way to create those tables, then?****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks,****
>
> ** **
>
> Eliot****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* PhistucK [mailto:phistuck@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 4, 2012 10:56 PM
> *To:* Taylor Costello
> *Cc:* Jonathan Garbee; public-webplatform@w3.org
> *Subject:* Re: Template limits and server loads****
>
> ** **
>
> This article currently features 658 {{!}} -****
>
>
> http://docs.webplatform.org/w/index.php?title=html/elements/body&action=edit
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> ☆*PhistucK*****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 5:44 PM, Taylor Costello <
> nottaylorcostello@gmail.com> wrote:****
>
> Also I'm not really sure what it is exactly that you're making, but if
> it's a table in wiki markup for example. Switch it to HTML, it's not going
> to have any styling like wiki markup does so go to MediaWiki:Common.css
> (paste at end of URL after /wiki/) and make up a class and add CSS to make
> it pretty.
>
> You can only edit the common.css if you're a admin.
>
> Sent from my iPhone****
>
>
> On Nov 4, 2012, at 7:26 AM, Jonathan Garbee <jonathan@garbee.me> wrote:
>
> > Well, what is the alternative to {{!}}?  We are using that to replace a
> | character which breaks output.
> >
> > -Garbee
> >
> > On 11/4/2012 10:23 AM, Taylor Costello wrote:
> >> The template limit is usually 10,000 (you can find the exact number on
> MediaWiki's site) or so by default. It can be customized or even removed
> but I am unsure if Doug (shepazu) or anyone changed it. Metatemplates are
> especially dangerous because when used on the article they are generally
> used multiple times. I caught one page with 15 {{!}} on it, which will
> obviously add up quickly. MediaWiki has a lot of wacky features like this
> to prevent heavy server loads that are not clearly presented to editors so
> usually no one notices until the wiki blows up. If it happens, we'll be
> forced to sort through every bad page and remove them. Not only will it
> categorize the pages in MediaWiki warning categories, but it will break
> every template on the page to prevent the limit being passed.
> >>
> >> Luckily, {{!}} is a very short template and not particularly heavy but
> it would be best to prune the pages now before it's too late.
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On Nov 4, 2012, at 3:05 AM, frozenice <frozenice@frozenice.de> wrote:
> >>
> >>> What Taylor means by "on pages" is that metatemplates (like {{!}}) are
> used in normal article text, additionally to their intented use as template
> parameter values.
> >>>
> >>> Using them in normal text is, of course, not necessary and thus
> creates superfluous server load and pushes pages towards template limits.
> >>>
> >>> You can't avoid using them in template parameters, tmk. I don't know
> exactly what the limits on parameter values are, I'll hand it back to
> Taylor from here. ;)
> >>>
> >>> On 04.11.2012 08:06, PhistucK wrote:
> >>>> I think I was unclear. "Template value" is probably what you call "on
> pages".
> >>>>
> >>>> For example -
> >>>> {{Notes_Section
> >>>> |Import_Notes=
> >>>> {{{!}} class="wikitable"
> >>>> {{!}}-
> >>>> !Property
> >>>> !Description
> >>>> {{!}}-
> >>>> {{!}}[[dom/properties/constructor|'''constructor''']]
> >>>> {{!}}Returns a reference to the constructor of an object.
> >>>> {{!}}}
> >>>> }}
> >>>>
> >>>> The red text (the value of Import_Notes) is a "template value".
> >>>> Sometimes, there are huge tables. Is that fine?
> >>>>
> >>>> ☆*PhistucK*
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 1:56 AM, Taylor Costello <
> nottaylorcostello@gmail.com <mailto:nottaylorcostello@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>    Yeah, the huge issue isn't putting it on the templates, it's being
> used a lot on pages which will be a problem later. I realize there is no
> way around it in templates often but
> >>>>    on pages it will become a problem due to the limits. You don't
> want to put metatemplates on pages unless it's absolutely necessary for
> this reason. ;;
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>    On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 <tel:2012> at 1:29 PM, PhistucK <
> phistuck@gmail.com <mailto:phistuck@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>        Every template value that features a table is going to use
> lots of instances of this template.
> >>>>        This might be a bug in MediaWiki, or intentional behavior, but
> this is how it is.
> >>>>
> >>>>        ☆*PhistucK*
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>        On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 <tel:2012> at 8:20 PM, Taylor Costello <
> nottaylorcostello@gmail.com <mailto:nottaylorcostello@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>            Hi everyone!
> >>>>
> >>>>            I've noticed on some pages, people are using Template:!
> when they don't need to. Please keep in mind that if you don't need to use
> the piping template, then don't, it's
> >>>>            usually only needed if the coding is clashing with the
> wiki markup, otherwise just using wiki markup should work fine. Try testing
> wiki markup before resorting to the
> >>>>            template (by using the preview button). Most wikis have
> template limits, and once you go over them, any page with Template:! on it
> is going to break and be sorted into
> >>>>            a bad category via MediaWiki, it also goops up the servers
> and causes a very heavy load.
> >>>>
> >>>>            Of course, if our wiki (Docs) has no template limits, this
> doesn't really matter, but using a template when you don't need to still
> causes a lot of unnecessary load.
> >>>>
> >>>>            *Try wiki markup first, use work-around templates second.*
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >
> >****
>
>  ** **
>